mrv3000: made by elismor (brrr)
mrv3000 ([personal profile] mrv3000) wrote2011-03-16 09:34 am

(no subject)

So I've finished S3... Okay, I cheated. Some of the later eps I fast forwarded through because that same urge to wander off came over me like it did the first time. But I did watch all of the last episode. It just sort of ended, didn't it?

Anyway, I've seen people saying that because of the last episode they're thinking Veronica and Logan would get back together. I think I'm missing something because I didn't really see anything. Can someone clue me in?

[identity profile] 2011-03-16 04:57 pm (UTC)(link)
There's that scene near the end where Logan beats up that guy for Veronica and they kind of make eyecontact and have a moment? Which is small and maybe silly but it's always been my personal canon that it's Veronica's "wow I still love this guy" moment. And come on, Piz is never going to last is he.

That, and the writers said that to them, Logan/Veronica is endgame, they just were caught off guard by the cancellation.

[identity profile] 2011-03-16 05:03 pm (UTC)(link)
There's that scene near the end where Logan beats up that guy for Veronica and they kind of make eyecontact and have a moment? Which is small and maybe silly but it's always been my personal canon that it's Veronica's "wow I still love this guy" moment.

I might have to watch that again - it flew right by me. :D

And come on, Piz is never going to last is he.

Nah. He's basically Duncan II.

That, and the writers said that to them, Logan/Veronica is endgame, they just were caught off guard by the cancellation.

Did they? That's a shame.

[identity profile] 2011-03-16 05:09 pm (UTC)(link)
Youtube has everything. Everything, with added French subtitles apparently. XD How much you see in this scene depends on how desperate you are as a shipper.

[identity profile] 2011-03-16 05:15 pm (UTC)(link)
HMPH. This is like the Daniel/Betty thing with Ugly Betty. (Although Ugly Betty ended with a tiny fraction more.) Dumb canceling networks. This is why I need post-S3 fic. :D

[identity profile] 2011-03-16 05:44 pm (UTC)(link)
HEE. I read up on this last night because I was curious to see if Veronica/Logan was the intended endgame.

I think that ~look~ was supposed to be about how they still fundamentally understand each other? Or something. It's pretty hard for me to imagine Veronica and Logan not continually being drawn back to each other though because they do seem to understand each other on this primal level that I don't think anyone else does.

[identity profile] 2011-03-16 06:01 pm (UTC)(link)
I think you're probably right. (And they both need therapy. :D)

Do you have a link to TPTB talking about the endgame?

[identity profile] 2011-03-16 06:06 pm (UTC)(link)
Omg they need so much therapy. But like... idk, Piz or someone like Piz just feels too nice for Veronica. Not that she should only be with a bad boy or anything, but I think Logan gets her need for revenge and to "get even" and doesn't judge her for it or want her to change. And given that's a pretty big facet of Veronica's personality, I'd say that's a key understanding for any relationship that's going to work long-term.

lol I had to go all the way to wikipedia which as you know is a reputable source:

The last scene shared between Logan and Veronica is left ambiguous, with a meaningful glance exchanged between the two at the end of the series; described as 'primal' in the script. Veronica smiles at Logan after he beats up a man who sexually humiliated her, and he smiles back proudly. Logan leaves with his head held high, finally finding the happiness he's wanted for so long. It was made definite on a commentary that it was always going to be Logan and Veronica.

Via here.

[identity profile] 2011-03-16 06:30 pm (UTC)(link)
Logan leaves with his head held high, finally finding the happiness he's wanted for so long.

I'm having a hard time buying this. Was he supposed to finally have achieved happiness from the small smile of Veronica's? I'm not sure that would do it for him, really. It's like showing someone a zoo brochure of the giraffes instead of making it to the giraffe pen, but still being all "YAY!!"

[identity profile] 2011-03-16 06:31 pm (UTC)(link)
Michelle, you are critiquing what someone wrote in a wikipedia article. :p

[identity profile] 2011-03-16 06:32 pm (UTC)(link)
It does make me want to hear the commentary for the episode though. WHERE CAN I FIND IT. I refuse to buy the S3 DVDs.

[identity profile] 2011-03-16 06:33 pm (UTC)(link)
Dunno. I've been Netflixing.

[identity profile] 2011-03-17 05:45 am (UTC)(link)
Damn. I didn't realize there was commentary for VM, and I'm a commentary addict. I own all three seasons, so I will have to go listen to them next week. I'll try to make notes of any important details.

[identity profile] 2011-03-16 06:33 pm (UTC)(link)

[identity profile] 2011-03-16 10:37 pm (UTC)(link)
I think it left it wide open for a reunion for reasons others stated. I actually loved just seeing Veronica walking away at the very end, which IIRC was the last scene.

I never got bored by VM. I wished S3 focused more on Wallace, Weevil and Mac instead of Piz, but I still loved it.

[identity profile] 2011-03-16 10:39 pm (UTC)(link)
Yeah, Piz was just not all that interesting.

Part 1

[identity profile] 2011-03-17 12:35 am (UTC)(link)
Okay, prepare for an essay because I was VERY obsessed with Logan/Veronica, but I analyzed the hell out of it and LOVED that ending so much! Because it completely confirmed L/V for me.

what I was expecting from the finale was no hope, no nothing, no realization from Veronica EVER that SHE belongs with the bad boy because they see the same things the same way. (Like in their fight scene when Logan said "that's how we are." He said "we.") But, glory be, we got that. We got that realization, so I'm very content.

Furthermore, now I do believe that the "I'm a lover, not a fighter" in Welcome Wagon (3.01) and the "I think I do" in knowing what she wants in "Show Me the Monkey" (3.10) was all about Logan. Yes, after the final five spoilers came out, many of us believed that instead they were neon signs that Veronica is meant to be with Piz, but after the last two food court scenes, I think it is clear that they were, in fact, about Logan. (And telling that all four took place in the food court.) Veronica said "I think I do" because at that point she still wasn't sure about Logan, the tantalizing idea of a "good guy" was always there in the background for her. Well, these two episodes showed her, the same way that Veronica 1.0 (who was with the "good guy") would have been horrified by the actions of Logan in the food court, this Veronica was turned on by them and, no doubt, the good guy was horrified by her reaction.

She's NOT that girl who belongs with the "good guy" anymore and I finally, finally, FINALLY saw that realization on Veronica's face in that final scene (something I've been waiting for since early season two). Think back to "Welcome Wagon" and the fight scene, where did Logan get the tool to fight? From Veronica. Veronica 1.0 would have been horrified by Logan going after that guy with a taser, but Veronica 1.0 never would have owned a taser, yet alone calmly handed it to her boyfriend to do with what he (and she) felt was needed. So all along, the seeds HAVE been lain (not very well, I admit) that Logan IS the one for her; she just needed to realize it. Yes, they've been cramming the Logan is a bad boy, Piz is a good guy down our throats, but I think the reason was made clear in this final episode ... because Veronica BELONGS with the bad boy: Logan. Piz expecting her to walk away from insults, not fighting on her behalf, followed a few scenes later (in the same locale) by Logan knowing there HAD to be a reason she wasn't standing up for herself to Gory, to beating the crap out of the guy for her because she couldn't do it was the FLASHING, NEON-IN-YOUR-FACE sign that Veronica has desperately needed and by golly!, she finally saw it. And she got it. Halleluja!

Part 2

[identity profile] 2011-03-17 12:36 am (UTC)(link)
I'm not saying this couldn't have been done so much better and that the Veronica/Piz stuff couldn't have been downplayed, but I did actually clearly see the arc -- good for L/V -- that I think Rob Thomas intended. It was just (yet again) the exposition that bit. I wrote a long post here about what I thought the point of Logan/Parker and Veronica/Piz was and while my version was more clear and dealt with some more issues that weren't even remotely touched, essentially I do think I got it right in that they both needed to try another relationship to see why they, Logan and Veronica, DO work, so I'm not going to complain.

And I'm not going to even complain that we don't get follow-through because I'm sure Rob would have once again mucked it all up were he given the chance. This way it ended with Veronica realizing the "good guy" wasn't for her. The bad boy is the one who gets her and gets TO her. Logan knows exactly where he stands and sure damn as all hell seems happy with that knowledge for the first time in a long time. And since we'll have nothing future to contradict it, I can happily believe -- because the set-up was finally, FINALLY, there for her to reject the good guy and embrace the bad boy -- that Veronica finally got it and that she and Logan would go from there, finally doing it right this time. And we'll have no fourth-season canon full of twists and gotcha's to take it away.

Sure in the past, Veronica's epiphanies haven't stuck, but we rarely have gotten the NEON IN YOUR FACE kind that she got in this episode, and more importantly, we, the viewers can MAKE it stick because Rob can't undo it this time. The show is over. So, for this viewer, that final scene with she and Logan was a more than wide-enough-door open to make it very believable that from here ... IT STICKS and good!

Okay, now going further, this is what Rob Thomas said about that final scene on the DVD:

"This scene, uh, I know this is under the chapter heading of Veronica and Logan, and certainly it is a Veronica/Logan moment, uhm, but the -- I think Chris Lowell has such a hero moment and it's ju -- I guess ... I don't mean hero moment as, as -- hero moment for Piz, but I mean a hero-actor moment because what I ask him to play in this look is, you've just watched this go down and the way Veronica has looked at Logan and the way she looks at you, you know, you aren't going to be the winner. At the end of the day, you can't compete with what is going on between the two of them. And I think it plays beautifully. And the way that Kristen can't quite look him in the eye at the end of the episode, it kills me; it breaks my heart."

So for me, that completely and utterly and totally confirmed what I believed happened in that scene. Exactly. So, I just can't complain. The look Chris Lowell delivered (and I agree with what Rob said, to how KB played the way she couldn't really look at Piz -- although, obviously, MY heart wasn't broken, I was filled with GLEE!!!) is exactly what I saw and thought. So yay!! Confirmation that the final scene was proof that V/P would be over soon and that L/V were destined!! Woohoo!!

Re: Part 2

[identity profile] 2011-03-17 01:02 am (UTC)(link)
:D This all does make a lot of sense, and clearly it was what was intended by TPTB. On first watching for me, it was too subtle for me to catch it though. I wonder how many people wandered off from the show with a "that was it?" mindset, not quite cluing in to it all.

I have to say, I quite like the thought of Logan and Veronica winding up together, which does surprise me quite a bit since Logan has done some horrible things. I think why I'm okay with it is because Veronica seems to know exactly how crappy Logan's actions are, and doesn't excuse him for them.

It's an interesting relationship. It's a shame that it didn't glom together better at the end.
nic: (Veronica)

Re: Part 2

[personal profile] nic 2011-03-17 01:27 am (UTC)(link)
I had the same reaction as you. I'd read spoilers and expected NOTHING between Logan & Veronica. So to get what we did get was amazing. It gave me hope.

LoVe was one of my favourite ships EVER (after many years of being on the slashy side, it was the first het ship that grabbed me again) and I think it's because they were two strong, magnetic characters who fit so well. Of course Veronica can't settle for "nice". That's not who she is.