Listen to them. Children of the night. What music they make. TURN IT DOWN OR I'M CALLING THE COPS.

[mrv3000]

After the last TVD episode I have a certain impression of a character, and goldy_dollar has been trying to tell me that I am WRONG. (How dare she correct my opinions of something I know very little about and refuse to watch??)

Since this involves the last episode, I suppose I should cut it.



So in this last episode a character named Caroline does some kind of Jedi mind trick to get some band to let her sing with them. To me any time you suck the free will out of someone, it gets a bit squiffy. On the one hand she didn't do anything violent or sexual (EW BADNESS), but on the other hand she wasn't trying to get past Imperial Stormtroopers in order to save the universe. (I think. This isn't a subplot of TVD, is it? BECAUSE THAT WOULD ROCK.) So...harmless, but yet a bit squiffy for me. How would you like to be the person this is done to?

[Poll #1712123]

Comments

[littledivinity.livejournal.com]

I think it could be slightly squiffy, but within the grand context of everything, it's sort of ... just something that happens. It's honestly the vampire's main 'power' on this show, the compulsion. So after episode after episode of Damon compelling women to not be so skeeved that he's fucking them and slowly sucking them dry of blood, Caroline wanting to serenade her boy wonder was like, "awwww."

...

Still, for normal television, squiffy wouldn't be far off base.

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

So after episode after episode of Damon compelling women to not be so skeeved that he's fucking them and slowly sucking them dry of blood,

OMFG.

[janetmaca.livejournal.com]

YAY TICKY BOXES! No seriously, there's no way I could choose between the 3 options I ticked off.

[littledivinity.livejournal.com]

I think the funniest thing about TVD fandom en general is just the fact that they sort of roll with Damon's punches, because he's sadface.

Granted, Damon's pretty much my favourite, too. But, with the full and working knowledge that, dear God, he's horrible.

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

I thought about buttons, but everyone likes ticky boxes!

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

D: D: D: D:

[grav-ity.livejournal.com]

I don't know if this makes it better or worse, but when Caroline was human, she was one of those women.

[janetmaca.livejournal.com]

I'm glad the popular choice won this time. I'd hate to have to do a massive flounce. :D

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

[elirrina.livejournal.com]

Jedi mind tricks are squiffy unless used in the pursuit of saving the universe etc. Sharktopus clearly is better than the other two. LOL, I love your entry title.

[goldy-dollar.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I think [Bad username or site: littledivinity / @ livejournal.com]'s explanation is sort of what I was trying to get at. In a show where we're constantly being shown that Damon uses his vampire powers to feed on and rape women and take away their memories, it's much easier to say "aww Caroline is using her vampire powers to sing a song to her boyfriend. Jedi Master Yoda Stefan must be so proud of her!!" than it would be if you just get it out of context.

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

XD

Now if Sharktopus was using Jedi mind tricks...

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

Of course, kicking a puppy also looks good by comparison. :D

[goldy-dollar.livejournal.com]

LOL POINT TAKEN. (Though I have a whole rant about how sometimes the show makes a joke out of the way Damon abuses women and I CAN'T. I CAN'T, MICHELLE. I GET SO MUCH RAGE.)

I think the thing is about vampires, is that they tend to be really broody and manpainy and srs bsns all the time, but then Caroline comes along and smacks you in the face with all her sunshine and light. And TVD in general does a good of showing that, if you're going to live for hundreds of years with Jedi powers, you can choose to use them to hurt and manipulate people or you can use them to get free drinks or sing on stage with a band and generally live your life. And if I had Jedi Mind Tricks, I would TOTALLY use them to get free drinks! Which isn't being 100 morally perfect, but isn't really that bad on the evil scale. Plus how boring would it be to create a character with Jedi Mind Tricks and then have them go around saying they won't use them because They Are Just Too Good.

I dunno why I keep trying to explain these things in your journal. Here, have a gif of the Doctor and Rose being cute:

[papilio-luna.livejournal.com]

I went with not squiffy, mainly because the Jedi Mind Trick isn't actually real, so I have a hard time getting too upset over a character using it to do something that doesn't hurt anyone. Hurting people is a real thing that exists, so I'm generally anti-that, but The Whammy being used to, like, get into a bar before you're 21 or something? Eh.

Also, obligatory: lol vampires

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

I'll admit, it's a bit like comparing jaywalking to MURDER. :D

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

Though I have a whole rant about how sometimes the show makes a joke out of the way Damon abuses women and I CAN'T. I CAN'T, MICHELLE. I GET SO MUCH RAGE.

I seriously doubt I could watch this show for reals.

But yeah. There's really no saying that singing a song is anywhere near the same as rape, murder, and so on. Like, not even in the same zip code.

I think I'm a bit like Rose (DW) in this situation though. "HOW DARE YOU GET INSIDE MY HEAD WITHOUT ASKING. THAT IS NOT ON."

[tripocket.livejournal.com]

This would be squiffy in all instances except Caroline who is really just to darn cute for it to be anything other than eye-rolling with a side of silly grin. However NONE of this matters because really... didn't vampires used to be badass? I recall badass. Ultimately I blame the downfall of badass with the sliding into emo Louis in Interview with a Vampire. Louis would have sparkled if it wouldn't have clashed with his 'face of woe is me'. After that it was only a matter of time when we would see Caroline as the 'Softer Side of Vampirism'.

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

Vampires seem to have become really emo over the years, haven't they? Emo and much hotter.

Softer Side of Vampirism. *SNORTS*

[butterfly.livejournal.com]

Yeah, the compulsion thing is part of the standard vampire package on this show. All the vampires use it - the 'good' vampires don't use it to kill or feed on people, but they are still pretty casual about mucking about with people's heads.

[goldy-dollar.livejournal.com]

I seriously doubt I could watch this show for reals

Yeah I get that. I think the show does a lot of things well, but for everything I like, I have one pretty big sweeping complaint.

But yeah. There's really no saying that singing a song is anywhere near the same as rape, murder, and so on. Like, not even in the same zip code.

Plus cute!

I think I'm a bit like Rose (DW) in this situation though. "HOW DARE YOU GET INSIDE MY HEAD WITHOUT ASKING. THAT IS NOT ON."

Yeah, I get that. Oddly enough, one of my most uncomfortable moments re: Damon wasn't the killing/raping (though obviously those make me uncomfortable too) but when he compelled Elena and erased her memories and IT JUST FELT SO WRONG. Which I guess is also partly the different of your main character being compelled versus a random one-off extra.

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

I guess it's one of those internal logic things you have to accept. Sort of like how Time Lords can talk to cats. XD

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

I have no idea how you haven't been writing lots of long, ragey metas. :D

Oh wait! You have a TVD filter, right? Long, ragey metas are probably there.

[goldy-dollar.livejournal.com]

LOL MOSTLY I EMAIL YOU, OPAL, AND KALI WITH MY RAGE. And sometimes [Bad username or site: a_white_rain / @ livejournal.com]. I was sort of traumatized by the one time I tried to discuss Damon and sexual consent issues on my LJ.

[http://users.livejournal.com/_thirty2flavors/]

Is "squiffy" a new word for "squicky".

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

And mostly we just mock your vampire-loving ways. *pats you*

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

Sort of? Maybe? :D

[http://users.livejournal.com/_thirty2flavors/]

LIRL

It sounds really dirty to me so I am going to avoid using it.

But anyway I generally don't like the idea of compulsion at all so I guess I will say it is kind of squicky.

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

It's like me and the word "Cloen." XD

[butterfly.livejournal.com]

Ha! A bit, I suppose. It's more kinda like Dollhouse or like how Torchwood was (when it was being good and not ridiculous) - an exploration of grey morality.

[wiliqueen.livejournal.com]

I have massive, massive issues with how various vampire characters -- often characters I love dearly in general -- toss the whammy around. I work them out in fic.

That said, Caroline (whom I've never actually seen as a vampire, since I have yet to even catch up on season 1) is too cute for pretty much anything ever.

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

I have massive, massive issues with how various vampire characters -- often characters I love dearly in general -- toss the whammy around. I work them out in fic.

Fic is good for stuff like that.

That said, Caroline (whom I've never actually seen as a vampire, since I have yet to even catch up on season 1) is too cute for pretty much anything ever.

From what I understand, she's sort of like a puppy that's been turned into a vampire. :D

[wiliqueen.livejournal.com]

Louis did sparkle. Remember that whole tangent at the beginning of TVL where Lestat explains that he has to cake on powder liek woah for stage lights?

If you look at Rice's actual physical description of what they look like, it's the EXACT same think as sparklepires, except with better vocabulary. (Or mostly, viz. "our fingernails are like glass" WTF??)

I really wish I had more opportunities to point this out to people in person and watch them go O_o. It's great fun. And also the primary reason why Meyer's sparkling fetish, while I appreciate the whole easy-target shorthand thing, is the LEAST of my issues with that universe.

[maypanic.livejournal.com]

Squiffy? Isn't that a kind of peanut butter? No, wait, that's Skippy. And Jiff. Peanut butter for Squids!


Honestly, I'm so icked out by the whole blood drinking thing (even typing that makes me nauseous) that a little bit of mind control is like throwing a match in a raging bonfire. Also possibly it depends on how bad of a singer she is.

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

I'm totally icked out by the blood thing too. I was gagging in DW's Smith and Jones. :P

[maypanic.livejournal.com]

Bleh. Couldn't look at bendy straws after that. And almost didn't watch Vampires in Venice, despite might deep and passionate adoration of Venice.

Drinking blood is just something I will never find less than completely disgusting. Which is why I will never join any vampire fandom, and will never convert to Catholicism.

[shinyopals.livejournal.com]

I'm pretty sure squiffy is a synonym for being drunk over here, so I find this whole conversation v confusing! XD

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

Really? XD XD

[shinyopals.livejournal.com]

90% of slang words also apply to drunkenness in the UK. Not even kidding.

[audrich.livejournal.com]

BEST POSTING TITLE EVER.

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

XD

[sunnytyler001.livejournal.com]

"From what I understand, she's sort of like a puppy that's been turned into a vampire. :D"

Good definition, actually XD

[sunnytyler001.livejournal.com]

AGREED ABOUT "THE BEST TITLE EVER".

FF COPPOLA's DRACULA WAS SOOOO MADE OF WIN. TOTAL WORK OF ART.
(Btw, before becoming a vampire? Caroline was Lucy to Damon's Dracula.)

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

:D

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

You must be seeing vampires everywhere now after marathonning it all! :D

[sunnytyler001.livejournal.com]

I meant Lucy Westenra (Mina's BFF), not Lucy Saxon XD

[marble-rose.livejournal.com]

It's all squiffy to me. Obviously, Damon and Katherine are the worst on the show. They use those jedi mind tricks to get laid. So, not cool. But then, I pretty much love both of them. As characters. Kind of how one loves the Master even though he's a total tool. They're entertaining, and anytime we get a tiny, secret glimpse of their respective humanity, I get really excited.

But then, I don't like how any vampire uses compulsion. I have serious issues any time free will is taken away, no matter what the intent. I think there are some times in fiction where the fate of the world depends on it, which, okay, I won't nitpick too much. But I don't like when ANYONE does it on this show because it's almost always for selfish reasons. Like Caroline wanting to serenade her boyfriend or Stefan wanting to take Elena on a ferris wheel. WHAT HAPPENED TO BRIBING PEOPLE WITH MONEY???

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

Kind of how one loves the Master even though he's a total tool.

That I can understand.

But I don't like when ANYONE does it on this show because it's almost always for selfish reasons.

That's what it seems like. At least I haven't heard about any saving-the-world plots yet. :D