Unpopular Opinion Time

[mrv3000]

I felt the need to write some unpopular opinions, probably because I'm a bit cranky today. So fair warning about that if you decide to click.



Doctor Who

• I've written-off Eleven. I don't get him, I don't like him, and I don't think he's written or acted well. It's a bad combination of lack of character depth and lack of acting depth. (While I did like Eleven much better in "The Death of the Doctor," I can't say it was enough.) After an entire season and a few episodes I feel like I've given myself plenty of a chance. Eleven is towards the bottom of my Doctors scale. He and Six can have a douche-off while the others pretend they don't know them. (And given that every incarnation of the Doctor is a douche, that's saying something.)
  
  
• Amy never annoyed me like I know she did some people.
  
  
• On the opposite end, I don't I find Rory all that wonderful.
  
  
• River still irks me given that her character moments are basically "cartoonish sexy action woman" and nothing more. The one time I really liked her was in the Angels eps when she was in fatigues and being competent. That River I could watch a lot. But that River doesn't turn up most times. Her character was sacrificed for Super Cool Mystery that I do not give a shit about. It shouldn't be surprising - Moffat has fully admitted that he screwed with characterization in eps like GitF just to make the story work. So I guess I shouldn't be surprised that River being interesting to me has pretty much been thrown out the window for the plot.
  
  If River would become a full-time companion, I seriously wouldn't even bother tuning in. All that sweetie-darling-gun-blazing innuendo and I'd be hurling myself out a window. I can only take so much of that shit. And I can find dozens of the exact same character on action shows I don't bother watching. I tried for so long wanting to like River, if only so I wasn't one of those fans who simply hate a character for getting the way of OTP or something. BUT DEAR GOD MAKE IT STOP.
  
  
• I think the writing under Moffat's reign has been dumbed down. It doesn't feel like the DW universe is inhabited by adults anymore. I'm not simply talking about childish behavior or something, but rather that these characters act/talk in ways that is geared for children. It's probably all related to the lack of detailed characterization and/or using the characters as ciphers in the plot.

Sherlock

• I like Sarah. Quite a bit, actually. She's intelligent and fairly sane and hopefully she doesn't get killed off. Seems like much of fandom would be happy to get rid of her though, probably because of the wedge she causes between Sherlock and John. Personally, I think she'd be good at stopping the two of them from going completely batshit. Or at least keep John realizing that chucking eyeballs at cars would not be a good thing. However, I'm sad at the thought of John moving out to live with Sarah. (I seriously doubt Sarah would ever live at 221B.) Of course, then you'd get Sherlock living in their hedges which could be entertaining...
  
  
• I've pretty much resigned myself to knowing that I ship John/Sherlock as well as enjoy the gen stuff. And while I've read some amusing fics about Mycroft the Matchmaker, I seriously doubt Mycroft would give a shit about getting John and Sherlock together.
  
  
• I also have a hard time believing that John was really bi before he met Sherlock. It makes it easy for the fic, but personally I like that their relationship is complicated.
  
  
• I've been reading John/Sherlock ship fic - everything from G-rated to penises everywhere, waving around like grass in the wind**. I'm finding I just really don't care about sex between John and Sherlock. I don't need to know what gets stuck where and how wet it is. What I really want to read about is more emotional intimacy. But the default way to express that in fic is sex (although they're not the same thing.) So...HMPH.
  
  
• Generally Accepted Fanon in this fandom often confuses me. It's so cohesive! It's like there was a big meeting held a few months back where everything got sorted out and agreed upon. It boggles me.

** Thanks to shinyopals for this wonderful phrase.

Comments

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

It's so strange! :D

[nandamai]

It threw me off in "Sanctuary" too, but now I kind of like it.

I'm pretty sure penknife and artaxastra did sit down and have a meeting at some point. ;)



(Sorry MV!)

[fauxkaren.livejournal.com]

I don't quite get the Eleven love. I mean, I don't dislike him as much as other people. But there's nothing there that makes me care about him, and there is a lot there that makes me annoyed with him. Sorry to say, Moffat, but making him wear bow ties and silly hats and constantly drawing attention to that fact does not make Eleven likable. (Btw, Six also had questionable fashion sense. Coincidence? I THINK NOT.)

I think that if Rory was in the RTD era I wouldn't love his as much as I do. I'd still like him, but more in the way that I like Mickey. But since he's in the Moffat era and the other options for my affection are Eleven, Amy or River... I think I just cling to Rory.

A lot of people out there utterly ADORE River and I don't get it. I don't understand what makes her particularly interesting or awesome. *Kanye shrug* I do feel bad for her though, so that's something I guess.

As far as the writing being dumbed down, I agree in terms of character. A lot of times it feels like the characters just do whatever the plot needs them to do instead of their actions deriving naturally from their personalities. But then on top of that kind of dumbed down writing, you have what feels like needlessly complicated plots. Not that the plots themselves are particularly great, but Moffat just uses time travel and lazy writing to fold these basic plots over on themselves in order to make them seem more interesting (this imagery makes sense in my head, but I can't guarentee that it makes sense for real, lol).

I think that in terms of character the writing has been dumbed down.

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

I don't quite get the Eleven love. I mean, I don't dislike him as much as other people. But there's nothing there that makes me care about him, and there is a lot there that makes me annoyed with him. Sorry to say, Moffat, but making him wear bow ties and silly hats and constantly drawing attention to that fact does not make Eleven likable. (Btw, Six also had questionable fashion sense. Coincidence? I THINK NOT.)

I tried to give him a chance - more than I would with any other character on any other show simply because he's the Doctor. But I've gone way past the point of sanity trying to find something I like about him.

I do feel bad for her though, so that's something I guess.

I feel bad for her in the sense that they've been so damn sloppy in forming this character.

(this imagery makes sense in my head, but I can't guarentee that it makes sense for real, lol).

I understand what you're trying to say. He falls back on writing cheats a lot. It's meant to be REALLY BRILLIANT but it just attempts to cover plot holes. And once he finds something that works, he beats it into the ground.

GAH. WHY DO I LOVE HIS SHERLOCK AND LOATHE HIS DW? *IMPLODES*

[anxietygrrl.livejournal.com]

I don't need to know what gets stuck where and how wet it is.

LOL! Oh my God, that pretty much sums up my whole outlook on fanfiction for quite a while now.

I've only ever observed Who fandom from a distance, but I've been watching the show since Nine, and as a casual viewer with a generally fannish disposition, I found your unpopular opinions interesting. I really, really agree on River. I tried, but man, she bugs. Alex Kingston's fine, but River is written more like Moffatt's really cool idea for a character who would be really sexy and tough and cool!! and never filled in any more than that.

I tend to think Moffatt is overrated in general, though. Certainly he's talented, but like a lot of talented people, he's in love with his own cleverness, which results in a lot of needless plot origami.

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

LOL! Oh my God, that pretty much sums up my whole outlook on fanfiction for quite a while now.

XD I've never been one for PWP in any fandom, really. Give me a good story or at least something funny.

I really, really agree on River. I tried, but man, she bugs. Alex Kingston's fine, but River is written more like Moffatt's really cool idea for a character who would be really sexy and tough and cool!! and never filled in any more than that.

*nods*

I find that I can really like that type. (Aeryn in Farscape is an example of that type of character done well.) But it needs to go way beyond the surface for me.

I tend to think Moffatt is overrated in general, though. Certainly he's talented, but like a lot of talented people, he's in love with his own cleverness, which results in a lot of needless plot origami.

I think yes. That pretty much sums it up. One of my favorite New Who eps was (and always will be) The Empty Child/The Doctor Dances. But when he does Clever for the sake of Clever, things go sideways.

[a-white-rain.livejournal.com]

I LIKE YOUR DOCTOR WHO OPINIONS

But I do love Rory for punching the Doctor.

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

Rory punching the Doctor was the BEST! XD

[chiroho.livejournal.com]

Well Watson did get married, start a practice, and just consult with Sherlock on occasion in the books. So if it happened on the new show it would kind of as expected.

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I think I read that it's a strong possibility on the show, maybe in S2 even. I wouldn't be surprised at all either. I'll still be a bit sad though. (And still want Sherlock to live in their bushes. XD)

[goldy-dollar.livejournal.com]

I LIKE ALL OF THIS. EVEN THE SHERLOCK STUFF though I understand like 50 percent of it.

Eying you for shipping John and Sherlock though. WHO ARE YOU.

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

I DON'T KNOW! THIS PAIRING! IT MAKES NO SENSE! BUT IT'S EATEN MY BRAIN AT THE MOMENT. D:

[threerings.livejournal.com]

Generally Accepted Fanon in this fandom often confuses me. It's so cohesive! It's like there was a big meeting held a few months back where everything got sorted out and agreed upon. It boggles me.

I don't participate in Sherlock fandom at all, so I don't know anything about that, but in general Sherlock Holmes fandom there is a whole bunch of widely accepted fanon that's been around for over half a century. It's one of the kooky things I love about Sherlockiana, that we can state things like Holmes' birthday is January 6th, or that he and Irene Adler had a fling in Montenegro during The Great Hiatus or whatever and it's just accepted as fact, when it's not canon at all.

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

Sounds a bit like DW fanon. It hasn't been around quite as long, but still. :D

[starrynights24.livejournal.com]

This makes me feel so much better!! Granted I've only been able to manage two episodes worth of a chance to win me over (both season openers)...but you've summed up exactly how I feel about the era of Eleven thus far. My bestie & I even had to agree to not speak about DW with each other because she's firmly in the "seriously, this is brilliant writing" camp and I...am not.

And yet I did enjoy the couple of episodes of his version of Sherlock a great deal (I don't recall if I saw just two, or all three of the ones that aired on PBS. Was there more than that?) almost despite myself! *scratches head*

Maybe because I adored DW up until now and have only a vague passing interest in SH so I'm less critical/nit-picky?

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

This makes me feel so much better!! Granted I've only been able to manage two episodes worth of a chance to win me over (both season openers)...but you've summed up exactly how I feel about the era of Eleven thus far. My bestie & I even had to agree to not speak about DW with each other because she's firmly in the "seriously, this is brilliant writing" camp and I...am not.

I know some people think it's the best thing since the invention of fire. I can't relate.

And yet I did enjoy the couple of episodes of his version of Sherlock a great deal (I don't recall if I saw just two, or all three of the ones that aired on PBS. Was there more than that?) almost despite myself! *scratches head*

There were only 3 eps so far. I think the next 3 will be in the fall? And I seriously did not expect to like it. I was desperate for stuff to watch while on the treadmill so...

Maybe because I adored DW up until now and have only a vague passing interest in SH so I'm less critical/nit-picky?

I'm really really glad I've never been into Sherlock Holmes before. I'd probably be cranky. :D

[nandamai]

I ... see no qualitative difference between the Eleven years and the Nine/Ten years. But you know I am a casual viewer at best.

I've been contemplating Sherlock for a while (much of Sanctuary fandom is already enamoured) and I can tell you're going to shove me off the edge. I should do it while you're still in squee mode so we can squee together again. :)

I AM FULL OF CAPS

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

I ... see no qualitative difference between the Eleven years and the Nine/Ten years. But you know I am a casual viewer at best.

*EYES YOU*

I've been contemplating Sherlock for a while (much of Sanctuary fandom is already enamoured) and I can tell you're going to shove me off the edge. I should do it while you're still in squee mode so we can squee together again. :)

YES! SO. ALONE.

OMG, YOU COULD WRITE FIC! *FLAPS HANDS*

[kilodalton]

I think the writing under Moffat's reign has been dumbed down. It doesn't feel like the DW universe is inhabited by adults anymore. I'm not simply talking about childish behavior or something, but rather that these characters act/talk in ways that is geared for children. It's probably all related to the lack of detailed characterization and/or using the characters as ciphers in the plot.

THANK YOU!!!! THIS!!!!

I hate it when people are like "oh it is so much more intelligent now." No, it isn't. It is a much less layered show with many fewer nuances, and one-dimensional characterization -- and the "intelligence" is basically a lot of wannabe-edgy-dark-whodunit crap that seems specifically geared to manipulate an appreciative audience into feeling smarter if they can manage to keep track of all the plot tricks. That does not equate to a smart plot/arc - just a cluttered one. IDGI why people can't see the difference =/

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

This is pretty much my impression of the show nowadays. Like everything has to be the next Inception and everything else is secondary. It's tiring.

[captaintish]

Has John ever chucked eyeballs at cars? I can't remember. And considering Moffat's preoccupation with eyeballs I would not put it past him. Although I think it more likely that Sherlock would do the eyeball-chucking.

penises everywhere, waving around like grass in the wind

Wow. That...... is quite an image. I WANT TO KNOW WHAT GOES ON IN OPAL'S BRAIN. :D

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

Has John ever chucked eyeballs at cars? I can't remember. And considering Moffat's preoccupation with eyeballs I would not put it past him. Although I think it more likely that Sherlock would do the eyeball-chucking.

No, but I could imagine it happening. XD And at some point John will probably think this is perfectly normal behavior.

Wow. That...... is quite an image. I WANT TO KNOW WHAT GOES ON IN OPAL'S BRAIN. :D

I do too! But it's guarded by a sharktopus.

[maypanic.livejournal.com]

DW- My opinions differ on many of these points, but I respect your point of view and would never attempt to convince you to continue watching once your joy is gone. Anytime you lose the joy, it's time to find another hobby.

SH- I am so frustrated with how 99.9% of the fic falls in the waving around like grass in the wind category, with what gets stuck where like some kind of manufacturers instruction manual.

Obviously the solution is for you to start writing the epic John/Sarah with Sherlock living in the hedges fic. With case plot and fluff with a side of crack and twin beds and fade to black if absolutely necessary. I hereby volunteer to be your beta/fact checker/personal cheerleader. DO IT. DOOOO IIIIIITTTTTT.

Holmesian fanon is amazing. Can you believe I was at a con last weekend with one Sherlock Holmes panel- ONE and only one chance to sit around and discuss my almost 30 year long fannish glee, with actual breathing people who exist outside my computer for the first time ever- and I missed it because my stomach started growling so loud it would've drowned out any attempts at speech and I had to go hit up some foods instead. GNARYGH!!!

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

Anytime you lose the joy, it's time to find another hobby.

*nods* I haven't watched anything after "The Doctor's Wife." That's probably wise.

SH- I am so frustrated with how 99.9% of the fic falls in the waving around like grass in the wind category, with what gets stuck where like some kind of manufacturers instruction manual.

:D Yeah. I've read a couple of really good fics that were explicit, but sex wasn't really the point of the story. Although it did tie into what was happening other than porn for porn's sake. I guess I just don't care about reading something hot or whatever.

Obviously the solution is for you to start writing the epic John/Sarah with Sherlock living in the hedges fic. With case plot and fluff with a side of crack and twin beds and fade to black if absolutely necessary. I hereby volunteer to be your beta/fact checker/personal cheerleader. DO IT. DOOOO IIIIIITTTTTT.

XD I've tried to plot stuff in my head (or at least come up with some jokes) but it's just not working so far.

Holmesian fanon is amazing. Can you believe I was at a con last weekend with one Sherlock Holmes panel- ONE and only one chance to sit around and discuss my almost 30 year long fannish glee, with actual breathing people who exist outside my computer for the first time ever- and I missed it because my stomach started growling so loud it would've drowned out any attempts at speech and I had to go hit up some foods instead. GNARYGH!!!

DANG!

[queenrikki-hp.livejournal.com]

I keep seeing Sherlock on Netflix and eying it sideways. I like a good mystery but you know...Moffat. But I figure if you like it can't be all that bad.

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure I can be trusted. :D I liked it, but plenty of people didn't. You could always give it a try. I think I was fairly interested by 30 minutes in or so, and I went in expecting not to like it.

[fid-gin.livejournal.com]

So much Word to everything you've said re: Who, I just can't even believe it. IT'S LIKE WE SHARE A BRAIN. Except for Amy does annoy me, and Rory's about the only person I like. :)

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

:D I think I've finally hit my breaking point. I've tried to stick with it, just watching as a casual viewer and so on, but I just can't. It all irks me too much.

[makingmywayhome.livejournal.com]

I've written-off Eleven. I don't get him, I don't like him, and I don't think he's written or acted well.

This. I have friends who still watch but I just can't anymore. This is not a Doctor I can love and cheer for and cry over. This isn't really the show I fell in love with when I first saw it on PBS late night. I even liked Amy, but the rest of the characters are meh. :(

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

This is definitely not the show I fell in love with. Compare a S5/6 episode to S1 and it really is 2 different shows.

[http://users.livejournal.com/_thirty2flavors/]

I think the writing under Moffat's reign has been dumbed down. It doesn't feel like the DW universe is inhabited by adults anymore. I'm not simply talking about childish behavior or something, but rather that these characters act/talk in ways that is geared for children. It's probably all related to the lack of detailed characterization and/or using the characters as ciphers in the plot.

Yeah, every time I see people talk about how much more ~intelligent the show is now I'm always like ".........." I mean, I guess you can argue they're using a different definition of "intelligent" than I am, and it's true that there've been fewer things like Slitheen and Absorbaloffs. But the show isn't dealing with the same complex themes and it does not have the same degree of layering or morality. The morality is a big one for me, because the moral ambiguity of things in RTD's era was a huge part of what made it so interesting to me. With Moffat, the good guys are good, the bad guys are most often bad, and everyone goes home happy in the end.

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

I've not thought about that particular point before, but you're right. The Moffat era is very lacking in shades of grey. Combine that with dead doesn't mean dead (Rory) and the whole thing is missing the richness of reality.

That's one important thing I fell in love with about this show: yes, it did have an outrageous sci-fi plot, but underneath that it was populated with real people and real reactions. Like Rose said in that S2 ep: people think space is all wizzing about, but it's not. It's tough. And that element is completely missing from Moffat's Who.

[azarsuerte.livejournal.com]

*HUG* Re: DW, I'd say chuck it and give it another try when the next Doctor (or producer, or both) comes along. That's the best thing (IMO) about the show: don't like the current incarnation? Wait a few years and it'll be completely different. :-)

I still love Eleven and crew (well, except River can still DIAF for all I care--every time I start to care about her, they shove the romance down my throat again and I gag and upchuck it all) but I have to admit I'm not enjoying S6 as much as I did S5. But S2 of NuWho was my least favorite of RTD's era too, so until irrefutably proven wrong I'm just reminding myself every producer is entitled to a "sophomore slump". ;-)

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

Chucking it all and waiting is probably what I need to do. I feel a bit put out because it's Doctor Who, but I really wouldn't be sticking around this long for any other show.

[morgaine-nicely.livejournal.com]

i pretty much second everything you've said cept i don't like Amy at all lol :)
at this point i just want the series to be put out of it's misery. Moffat has ruined it all. the ONLY good bit was Neil Gaiman's ep with the tardis' wife.
as for the douche off with Six (six would win) lol :)

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

I feel a bit sad about it, but I just can't fake enjoyment or liking it.