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I don't quite understand why Tyrion was chucked into a tower. Sure now that daddy's back he'll no longer be the Hand, but still. Tyrion did sort of help out quite a lot. I don't get it.
Sansa! WTF RUN! I don't get why she's sticking around even after she knows she's been tossed over and her future is very bleak. Why didn't she take Littlefinger's offer to get her the hell out? Another thing I don't understand. I'm starting to wonder if these are things people know from the books, but if you're just a viewer you're scratching your head.
Wait. Who ransacked Winterfell? I thought it was Stark men who had Theon surrounded.
I think I've given up trying to figure out what the hell's going on with Jon Snow and the snow people, like why they cut his ropes after he fought that other dude. "The enemy of my enemy is my friend" is not exactly a good motto to live by, especially in this universe. More like "the enemy of my enemy will still screw me over 25 ways to Sunday before he puts my head on a spike."
So there's an army of zombies coming?
This was the season finale? But...! Man, this episode was a bit ball of things I didn't even remotely understand.
LOL FOREVER AT THIS PIC.

Cersei wanted to get rid of Tyrion all along, but couldn't because he was appointed by their father as hand. Tywin coming back meant that he was no longer important, so she got him out of the way while he was unconscious and couldn't fight her. Nobody else is going to stand up for him because he doesn't have that many friends and no one will go against the queen.

Ramsay Bolton's bastard son ransacked Winterfell - he's the guy who was always in the tent with Robb. Robb told him to offer Theon's men a pardon if they gave him up. The problem is that the people who did it aren't very knightly and good, they like ransacking and burning and pillaging.

Yeah, the Jon stuff was weird in the show. Basically, the other ranger forces Jon to kill him so that the wildlings will trust him and he can be a ~spy for the Night's Watch. In the book, it's more of a "kill this man to prove you're one of us" kind of thing.

Cersei wanted to get rid of Tyrion all along, but couldn't because he was appointed by their father as hand. Tywin coming back meant that he was no longer important, so she got him out of the way while he was unconscious and couldn't fight her. Nobody else is going to stand up for him because he doesn't have that many friends and no one will go against the queen.

You'd think at least his father would say, "he did okay - probably should at least be nice to him and all."

Ramsay Bolton's bastard son ransacked Winterfell - he's the guy who was always in the tent with Robb. Robb told him to offer Theon's men a pardon if they gave him up. The problem is that the people who did it aren't very knightly and good, they like ransacking and burning and pillaging.

Man, it seems like Robb's putting his trust in all the wrong people.

Yeah, the Jon stuff was weird in the show. Basically, the other ranger forces Jon to kill him so that the wildlings will trust him and he can be a ~spy for the Night's Watch. In the book, it's more of a "kill this man to prove you're one of us" kind of thing.

That's dedication to the job! :D

You'd think at least his father would say, "he did okay - probably should at least be nice to him and all."

His father doesn't care about him though. He made him hand because Tyrion was the only available Lannister and better him than a non-Lannister, but other than that Tywin hates him and couldn't care less what happens to him.

Man, it seems like Robb's putting his trust in all the wrong people.

Yeah, Robb's a bit of an idiot ;)

His father doesn't care about him though. He made him hand because Tyrion was the only available Lannister and better him than a non-Lannister, but other than that Tywin hates him and couldn't care less what happens to him.

These people are stupid. Even if he doesn't like Tyrion, the smart thing would be to recognize Tyrion's intelligence and use it as a resource. But, again, stupid.

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Okay, his actions would be way more believable as a 16 year old.

1. The subtitle of Game of Thrones is "Everybody Hates Tyrion." His dad appointed him acting Hand just out of pragmatism because Cersei is such a hot mess, not because he even remotely is fond of Tyrion. Now that he's no longer useful, his family is free to just lock him up and forget about him, as they'd really wanted to all along.

2. Because Sansa, for good reason, doesn't trust anyone. And really all of the people who have offered her escape thus far are shady as fuck. I mean, would you put your life in the hands of The Hound? I wouldn't.

3. The Stark men in question are really not good guys. You'll find more out about that next season.

4. It makes more sense in the book. In the book, it really does appear to them as if Jon has betrayed Qhorin and the Night's Watch, not just that he was defending himself and attacking a guy who was being a giant douchebag.

1. XD Poor Tyrion.

2. Good point.

3. Okay. *waits*

4. Heh. Yeah, you described it perfectly. :D I had no idea why they would care if those two dudes fought. If anything, they should be wary of Jon's ability with a sword. PEOPLE IN THIS UNIVERSE ARE STUPID.

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1. In a weird way I'm starting to like Jamie. Sort of. I did laugh when what's her name killed those guys and the look on his face was "I AM SO TURNED ON RIGHT NOW." XD ANYWAY. I agree they're being very short-sighted about Tyrion. Everyone seems to value brawn over brain, which is why they get into trouble.

2. Oy. That bit was very confusing to me.

3. Yeah. I guess she is smart enough to know her limitations.

4. Hmmm. I really wish the next season would start RIGHT NOW. I want to see how this plays out.

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I might have downloaded the sample of the first book onto my kindle. Haven't read it yet, but... :D

Be warned: Martin is truly great at characterisation and plotting and all sorts of very important narrative things but his prose is... well, he's no Tolkien. I devoured the books and loved them but I'll be the first to say that by Book 5 his quirks of bad prose had gotten to the point of just making me laugh out loud.

Hopefully if I make it that far I won't care anymore. :D

Eventually, Stockholm Syndrom kicks in XD

Looking forward to it! XD

Sansa's story has been messed with by not following the books. In the books, she has this subplot where someone (whom she trusts) is telling her that he's going to help her escape. So it's not like she's not trying to get out of there.

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Edit because of massive threadfail, sorry!

Though kind of an amusing one given the topic of this thread and my totally random choice of icon.

Edited 2012-06-06 18:22 (UTC)

The stuff with Sansa is weird because the show cut out her entire subplot. I don't want to be too specific because the show MIGHT decide to do it later, but basically Sansa has this person (that she has good reason to trust) who has been promising to help her escape. Also, in the book, that scene with Littlefinger never happens. lol. He peaces out from King's Landing at the beginning of ACOK and then he's off page for a very long time. And as for why she doesn't want to run away with the Hound, the scene in the book is a LOT creepier than it is in the show (he pins her to her bed and tells her to sing for him or he'll kill her and then says that maybe he'll steal a kiss and it's all super creepy), so you know, I wouldn't want to run off with him either.

EWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW.

(I hope Sansa can get out eventually.)

-As others have said, Sansa story keeps getting messed around with from the book. On the show the Hound's offer seemed almost reasonable where in the books he'd come within an inch of raping her, was drunk off his ass, and basically clearly not thinking clearly so Sansa would have been REALLY stupid to run off with him. Where in the show it seemed like a much more even choice to stay or go.(both bad so a coin toss to which is worse).

And then Littlefinger is never around to offer to get Sansa away in the books. He's basically pulling strings from far away not going anywhere near the actual fighting of this war he helped start. The closest I can give you for an in show reason for Sansa's behavior is that she's learning to be wary of trusting people and Petyr is still more than a little creepy to her, so maybe she's feeling a bit of 'the Devil you know' (the Lannisters) rather than the one she doesn't.

-They were Bolton men who went after Theon. Technically the Boltons serve the Starks but there's about four levels of power plays at work in the ransacking of Winterfell. The Boltons do have conflicts with the Starks over who should be the greatest Northern power; people are starting to have issue with Robb the boy king (which he is in the books) and some of the choices he makes; Ramsey Snow (Bolton's bastard who lead the attack) is a giant douche who practices a scorched Earth policy. And it's meant to be unclear exactly what happened at Winterfell, so that various sides of the conflict can claim whatever they want about what went down. Basically the game of thrones is even less simple than it seemed before, welcome to Westeros.

-Yeah, the Jon plot is another that made more sense in the book. We're sort of getting the cliff notes version in the show and it makes people's actions generally make less sense. Because Jon and the Halfhand had this whole long discussion about how they pledge their life and honor to the Watch but people always seem more willing to sacrifice their lives than honor and Jon needed to be prepared to lay down his honor for the good of the Watch and all it protects; so that when the Wildlings caught them and he picked a fight with Jon, Jon would know that he had to "defect" the Wildlings' side and prove it by killing the halfhand.

(Hmm, this sort of turned into several ways of saying, "the books are better"...I do like the show, but I feel like a lot of the...sense has been lost in the show.)

1. EW EW EW EW EW. Yeah, she definitely shouldn't have gone then. Poor Sansa.

2. Man, the confusion! You really do need a chart!

3. That makes quite a bit more sense.

And I think I might try the books. :D

... I basically had the same questions, and this has been a very helpful thread in terms of clarifying everything XD

AND LOL THAT PIC!!

There really should be some sort of guide we can look at after episodes air. GameofWhattheHellDidIJustWatch.com XD

Don't mess with the Queen!

Yeah, pretty much what everyone else said. Tywin despises Tyrion just as much as Cersei does, so he had no intention of doing anything when Cersei took the "excellent" opportunity of him being out cold to screw her brother over and shove him into a crappy tower.

Littlefinger is not exactly the most trustworthy guy (and such a creeper, omg), so def can't blame Sansa for not running off with him, either. And again it's not really in the books, so she's really kind of stuck where she is for the moment. And in the books she does believe there's someone she finds much more trustworthy working to help her get away, so she's doing the best she can until that plan comes to fruition. I'm guessing that'll be more in the next season, though, unless they decide to cut that subplot entirely, which would be sad...

RE: the sacking of Winterfell - husband and I were majorly confused as to whether it was Theon's men or the Bastard of Bolton who did it, because it was so ridiculously unclear. In the books it's very obviously Ramsay Snow, but while watching the show we were like "wait...what???" And that's annoying the heck out of me. It really doesn't need to be that much of a mystery. I feel it would have worked better as an "oh snap" moment if they'd made it clear that it was Ramsay Snow and his men, for a whole variety of reasons that are too spoilery to get into here! But yeah, definitely can't blame you for being confused... I know I was, and I've read the damn books!

The thing about Qhorin Halfhand is he's basically the most badass Ranger ever, aside from Jon's uncle Benjen Stark. All the wildlings know of him and in their own way respect and fear him - so Jon actually killing the Halfhand is a big deal, and not just because it's one of his own people. And again in the books Jon and Qhorin do have this long talk before they ever come upon the wildlings about honor and duty and all that jazz, and how you have to be willing to give your life for the Watch. So they fight - and it's a pretty rough fight, IIRC, way more than in the show; Qhorin definitely goes down swinging - and Jon's all DDDD: when he kills him, and Ygritte et al are all "...well okay." Hence their newfound semi-respect for him.

Ahh, the zombie army. Fun times are ahead for all! :D

- I really hope it pans out for her. Poor Sansa.

- The whole thing was terribly confusing. One minute Theon's men were deciding to get the hell out of there, the next minute everything's a burned wasteland. It was very strange.

- Another thing the show didn't seem to do very well. It's a shame, really. I can't imagine I was the only viewer who was confused about everything in this episode. I'm sure they have to walk a line since their audience is made up of two groups -- people who've read the books and people who haven't -- but still.

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