DW - The Talons of Weng-Chiang (Four, Leela)

[mrv3000]

So this pseudo Weng-Chiang was actually from the 51st century and had been mucking around with time travel. But it didn't work - not really. His line of experimentation was a failure since the body would ultimately not stabilize after time displacement. Right?

In any case, it seemed like he didn't know one way or the other if his "pioneering" had worked or not, since he told the Doctor "you're here because of my research" and the Doctor told him "no, you failed." (And I'm *sure* was thinking that the TARDIS could kick this guy's time cabinet's wooden ass.)

BUT... This guy sounded like he was pretty much the first time traveler in his experiments. He sent himself back in time - and then it went a little sideways. Now, if that's the case, HOW could he have known about Time Agents? o_O

I'm gonna get told this is a hand-wave, aren't I? *narrows eyes*

Other than that, the episode did turn out to be pretty interesting with the time travel and the...pig toy. Plus the Doctor actually *asked for* and got a big-ass gun. And then used the big-ass gun. That's pretty unusual. Of course, he did also make a bomb and that seems pretty typical. ;)

Just couldn't get over the stereotype though. *shudders*

ETA: And now there are vague S3 spoilers in the comments. Which could get non-vague. :D (Somehow I think I might be one of the only people who goes in with the intent of *only* talking about some Classic episode, but winds up talking about New Who anyway. Well...I had help!)

Comments

[greenpear.livejournal.com]

Just couldn't get over the stereotype though. *shudders*

What do you expect from the 70s...

Big-ass gun, time agents, pigs, nearly naked Leela. This one had it all!!!!

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

What do you expect from the 70s...

Yeah, I know. But still. Looking at it now - bleh.

Big-ass gun, time agents, pigs, nearly naked Leela. This one had it all!!!!

Oh yeah. Nearly-naked Leela is *exactly* what I'm looking for.

[greenpear.livejournal.com]

Maybe not what you're looking for but I enjoyed it...

Do you think we'll ever get another non-human companion? Problem would be there wouldn't be as much reason to hang around London as much. And that would probably kill the budget...

[wiliqueen.livejournal.com]

Not really a hand-wave, no. It's been a while since I saw it, but as I understand it, the destructive nature of Greel's experiments attracted the attention of Time Agents (apparently from his future), who tried to stop him.

In true arrogant mad-scientist fashion, when the TAs turned up, he just assumed that their technology MUST be based on his work. Since the Doctor tells him flat-out that his line of research is a dead end, whatever they use evidently doesn't come from his work any more than the TARDIS does. But Greel simply refuses to believe it.

[butterfly.livejournal.com]

I think the theory is that, before the Time War, the Time Lords stomped down on anyone using that kind of technology, so the Time Agency didn't exist until after the Time Lords had been killed/taken out of time.

[wiliqueen.livejournal.com]

brainiacfive ran across something recently that helps explain the Earthbound thing: Most of the quarries and such that they used to use for filming alien landscapes have been filled in and developed.

Apparently we're actually still seeing some of the same locations...as housing developments. O_o

[greenpear.livejournal.com]

Ahhhh, location shots.

I think the whole idea of having to build an alien world from scratch is crazy. Why can't it just kinda look a little like Earth and do lots of stuff outside. Then get some old rubber prostetics and make a bunch of aliens.

Many of the planets the Classic Who went to looked like Earth, didn't they?

[chiroho.livejournal.com]

Yup, that sounds about right. The Time Agents had come to stop him so that's how he knew of their existence, but of course he assumed that he must be the inventor of the technology that they are using. Never suspecting that the Doctor doesn't even come from Earth of course, and so would have access to completely different time technology.

[chiroho.livejournal.com]

Nearly-naked Leela is *exactly* what I'm looking for.

I knew that. :)

Seriously, I guess Louise Jameson said that she used to get a lot of fan mail from middle aged men. When asked why she said "You try running around in a leather leotard after the football." This was in reference to the fact that Doctor Who typically aired at 6pm on a Saturday, right after the football (soccer) show "Match of the Day" had ended.

[wiliqueen.livejournal.com]

Never suspecting that the Doctor doesn't even come from Earth of course, and so would have access to completely different time technology.

*nods* The same could be true of the Time Agents, for that matter. Nothing said in "Talons," and nothing said by either Jack or the Doctor in the new series, indicates they're from Earth, apart from Greel's assumption.

While allowing for the possibility, tho, I think they probably are. In which case, technically they owe something to Greel, as even dead-end research provides signposts of what to avoid.

[chiroho.livejournal.com]

Most of the quarries and such that they used to use for filming alien landscapes have been filled in and developed.

I think more that RTD absolutely refused to use quarries for any alien landscapes in New Who. I mean, something like 90% of alien planets were the same quarry in Surrey or something. It's instantly recognizable as the quarry in which the hand was found in "The Hand of Fear", the Zygon ship exploded in during "Terror of the Zygons", various Skaro scenes were filmed during "Genesis of the Daleks" and "Destiny of the Daleks", etc., etc.

Of course, all other alien planets looked like royal parks or forests. Still, I guess it's no different than alien planets all looking like British Columbia is it?

[chiroho.livejournal.com]

nothing said by either Jack or the Doctor in the new series, indicates they're from Earth

It's somewhat implied, but definitely not stated. I mean, for all we know it could be a pan-Galactic Gargle Blaster organization.

even dead-end research provides signposts of what to avoid.

Right. I'm sure there would be records of what he did so that they would know what caused problems and be able to pursue other approaches. It's a fairly standard practice to "if the first way gets you killed, try something a little different".

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

Oh, okay. That does make some sort of sense. And I guess that even if Greel's experiments failed, they'd still want to stop his murder and destruction.

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

Oh really?

Of course...could they have been mentioned back during a Four episode then?

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

Who knows - probably every time they think of doing an "alien," they quickly think of the hours of makeup work each day to make the person look not-quite-human.

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

Now I'm seeing more of his quarry aversion - just about every other episode it seems takes place in a quarry. :D

But I still do not get his "we're sticking around Earth" statement for S3. You can do things like "New Earth" where interiors are shot at a place with unique-looking architecture, or "The Impossible Planet" where they were on a set and exteriors were matte/CGI.

[greenpear.livejournal.com]

It's not like the old days when many of the aliens were extremely human looking. Nowadays it's all the special effects.

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

Heh. Interesting!

See, housing developments can get just as old as quarries. They did walk through a few ordinary streets in S2, didn't they?

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

Heh heh heh.

[fiona-conn.livejournal.com]

Or when they wandered around in rubber suits. =P

[chiroho.livejournal.com]

I still do not get his "we're sticking around Earth" statement for S3.

Not sure I do either. I mean, it's not really like they went that far from Earth in previous New Who seasons anyway.

Rose - Earth
End of the World - space station above Earth
Unquiet Dead - Earth
Aliens of London - Earth
WW3 - Earth
Dalek - Earth
The Long Game - space station above Earth
Father's Day - Earth
Empty Child - Earth
The Doctor Dances - Earth
Boom Town - Earth
Bad Wolf - space station above Earth
The Parting of the Ways - space station above Earth

Christmas Invasion - Earth

New Earth - Hospital on a planet terraformed to be like Earth
Tooth and Claw - Earth
School Reunion - Earth
Girl in the Fireplace - spaceship + Earth
Rise of the Cybermen - Earth
Age of Steel - Earth
Idiot's Lantern - Earth
Impossible Planet - space station place
The Satan Pit - space station, ship, and quarry pit
Love & Monsters - Earth
Fear Her - Earth
Army of Ghosts - Earth
Doomsday - Earth

The Runaway Bride - Earth

Okay, so in two seasons there were 28 episodes, of which perhaps 3 weren't set on Earth? Okay, six if you count the space stations as being "other planets". That's only about 20% of episodes. The Doctor hasn't been on Earth so much since Jon Pertwee was exiled there! How can they actually be any closer to Earth than they are now?

We need to see the galaxy! All those wonderful sights "out there" that SJS talked about. Gimme some VISTAS!

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

Or bubble wrap. HA!

[butterfly.livejournal.com]

That is such a good point. I have no clue! One of the problems with repeating things that you've heard elsewhere. Apparently, the Time Lords do stomp on 'lower beings' obtaining time-travel technology, which I think I saw in one of the few older episodes of DW that I've seen. Two Doctors, maybe. Hmm.

[fiona-conn.livejournal.com]

... And you could see the zips at the back of the outfits. XD

[greenpear.livejournal.com]

I started out with four and Leela was the first companion I saw. That savage outfit always makes me crazy...