mrv3000 | Here come the drums...

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Here come the drums...

Think I've come to a decision about Last of the Time Lords.

Jack being the Face of Boe? Shocking, but...really, really pointless. Okay, it makes sense considering that Boe was extremely old, beyond really anything in the universe. But Jack's comment about feeling he was kept alive for a reason, said while back in Torchwood (don't know the exact line)...

There was no *reason* for his "you are not alone" in Gridlock. The Doctor didn't even believe him at the time. And it provided no insight or knowledge before, during or after the Master appearing.

Sorry, Jack, but you were a plot device.

But at least the Doctor was with Jack when he eventually died. And I do think that that's really rather lovely.

ETA: Oh, you know what would be mind-bendingly cool? If someday the Doctor would eventually die (for the last time), but does it in, say, 4692 or something. And Jack would be there for him when he died. Ack! I'm tearing up!

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I still say it's complete coincidence. Just because it annoys me. *grump*

But at least the Doctor was with Jack when he eventually died.

That would be the one redeeming factor, yesh.

I still say it's complete coincidence. Just because it annoys me. *grump*

You mean that whole Prof. YANA (You Are Not Alone) thing? *snickers*

That would be the one redeeming factor, yesh.

Yeah, that's kinda my thinking. Otherwise...meh.

You mean that whole Prof. YANA (You Are Not Alone) thing? *snickers*

Oh, that annoys me even MORE. :-P

But I mean Jack being the Face of Boe we've seen. I just can't see it as anything but DUMB. Unless the nickname is a completely random coincidence, and then it amuses me. So I'm going to consider it that until proven otherwise. :-D

Oh, that annoys me even MORE. :-P

Bwah!!

But I mean Jack being the Face of Boe we've seen. I just can't see it as anything but DUMB. Unless the nickname is a completely random coincidence, and then it amuses me. So I'm going to consider it that until proven otherwise. :-D

Oh HA! That *would* be hysterical. Someday the Doctor runs into Jack and Boe...in the same room.

"Wait! No! You're him! Each other! What?"

"Because of the name? You really thought I was going to turn into a head in a jar? Ever heard of plastic surgery?"

"And I have never tasted a hypervodka. Or done it with five people at once."

"Yeah, um, be right back. Gotta go kick someone's 21st-century ass in Cardiff..."

*smooooooooooooch* Nobody makes makes yummier lemonade out of lame writing choices than you, my dear.

*snickers*

Yeah, the more I think about the Face of Boe thing, the less I like it. I'm not freaked about it like some people are, but... meh. I really wanted for there to be an actual good reason for Jack's immortality. I suppose you could count Boe meeting up with the Doctor several times as that, but each time seems so ... inconsequential. Especially the last time, because Boe told him absolutely nothing useful. Plot device, totally. Not to mention that I really do not like the idea of Jack being stuck as a head in a jar for millions of years. Jack needs to be able to get out and flirt and stuff.

If someday the Doctor would eventually die (for the last time), but does it in, say, 4692 or something. And Jack would be there for him when he died. Ack! I'm tearing up!

Wah!! *sniff*

Yeah, the more I think about the Face of Boe thing, the less I like it. I'm not freaked about it like some people are, but... meh.

*nods* I'm not flailing or anything, but it's just really pointless.

I really wanted for there to be an actual good reason for Jack's immortality. I suppose you could count Boe meeting up with the Doctor several times as that, but each time seems so ... inconsequential. Especially the last time, because Boe told him absolutely nothing useful. Plot device, totally.

Yup. Absolutely nothing changed because of what Boe told the Doctor in Gridlock. It *was* inconsequential.

Not to mention that I really do not like the idea of Jack being stuck as a head in a jar for millions of years. Jack needs to be able to get out and flirt and stuff.

Well, he obviously was doing *something* - there was some new article about the Face of Boe being pregnant...again. :D That's a bit trippy. Wonder how he managed that one!

Wah!! *sniff*

It's sad, but I think it's kinda nice. The two "immortals" being there for each other at the end.

I really wanted for there to be an actual good reason for Jack's immortality.

Huh. A lot of people feel this way, and I'm scratching my head about how I really rather don't.

I really, really love that such a profound consequence resulted from Rose having the best of intentions but no bloody clue what she was doing. And that it's up to Jack to honor the intentions, and his own worth, by making it a positive.

As a cosmic mistake, I think it's one of the coolest, if not the coolest thing this team of PTB have done. As something With A Good Reason, it would become contrived to me.

I still get such a kick out of Jack being the Face of Boe.

In my personal canon, he gets so old that his memories of the Doctor sort of fade a bit and all he can remember is that he MUST tell him that the Master exists. He just can't remember precisely the what/when/where/how of it all. (HEY. AFTER 5 BILLION YEARS, YOUR MEMORY WOULD BE GOING, TOO.)

Also, it comforts me to know that Jack dies EVENTUALLY. (And that the Doctor is there! *sniff*)

You know, at first I was thinking all cosmic mistake/Rose-screwed-up, which I'd have been fine with. Who's all about unintended fallout from good intentions. The Doctor's wake is *littered* with this.

But then that Jack line from Torchwood, talking about 'alive for a reason,' kept sneaking into my mind, and it just seemed like the setup to something more. Which I guess was the Boe thing. But that didn't really seem to be a "reason" like Jack was talking about.

AWWWWWW! *pets old!Jack*

And yeah. Kinda glad he doesn't make it all the way to the end of the universe.

I dunno. I would want to think that too if I were him.

But I've gotten quite attached -- from about that time, actually -- to the idea that he needs to find/make his own reason, and that he would eventually find that out. That there wasn't one that would just be Revealed to him.

Yeah, I guess. I know, it really is a good thing - another theme of Who: finding your own path.

But...the reason! They redherringed us! Which shouldn't be so shocking, really. *mutters*

You know, at first I was thinking all cosmic mistake/Rose-screwed-up, which I'd have been fine with.

I might have been too, if it didn't seem clear to me that Rose knew exactly what she was doing while she was the Bad Wolf. Therefore Jack's immortality should have a real purpose behind it. Rose wanted Jack to live, Bad Wolf made him immortal, and the Bad Wolf doesn't screw up even if Rose does. If that logic makes any sense.

And with Jack being the Face of Boe, he gets to see Rose again, at least twice, before she's gone.

Was Boe there to tell him something, or to get the people out of Gridlock with the Doctor's help? He saved (again) what was left of an entire population's planet, keeping them alive all that time until The Doctor showed up.

That's something, at least.

As for what he said, yeah. In the grand scheme of things, pretty inconsequential. But if The Master & The Doctor both have the same thought - flee and turn yourself human - how many other Time Lords might have come to the same conclusion? Were there others who may have escaped to parallel universes before they were sealed off?

The Doctor may still not be the last.

Ah, that's true!

Yeah, that's an excellent point. And I'm sure that he's saved many people between now and then as well. So...it's not that Jack's existence is pointless. Far from it. But within the context of the storytelling...

And there's another point about some of the Time Lords running away. They could always have some pop up in the future if they wanted.

There's always that as well. The whole Bad Wolf thing was constantly beyond the Doctor, and he kept getting it wrong. He was saying things like it all involved him and Rose was just a pawn or something. That Rose could be a part of it never even crossed his mind. He could very well have been wrong about the "out of control" thing, just because that was the way it looked to him.

The whole Bad Wolf thing was constantly beyond the Doctor, and he kept getting it wrong.

Your right, the Bad Wolf puzzle was always a mystery to him. It certainly wouldn't be surprising that he got it wrong again, after all he probably figures it's all gone now but we know it's still around. Actually...have any of the callbacks occurred with him around? The werewolf brought it up, there was the Bad Wolf virus but no telling if the Doctor knew about it, the one in Torchwood, and then the one in Chinese in Gridlock that he didn't seem to notice. Well, there was Bad Wolf Bay obviously, but the significance could easily be lost if it's the only reference he notices (on top of which she was the one to point out the translation).

It's there, but he can't see it, because it was always outside his world, it existed for Rose. I think what he needs now is to see with her eyes again and realize that she's everywhere, reaching to him, the link between them telling him that he can get back to her.

Ooooh. "Bad Wolf here, Bad Wolf there."

If only.

The Face of Boe crap really was just squashed in there with no forethought. I shudder to think of the reasoning RTD has for making that, it lacks all the continuity that makes it something that he had in mind from day One.

Also are they going to explain exactly how Jack went from being gorgeous to being a gigantic head with tentecles? Cause to me it makes no sense to me.

Yeah, it just really doesn't make sense, does it? Total plot device with Big Shocker thrown in.

But I'd love to smack that plot device's ass

::smiles with raised eyebrow::

The tank version or the non-tank version? ;)

Definately TANK

LOL!

See, I thought maybe it was a clever pun, being that he was a "poster boy": the Face of Beau?

Or would that be too silly?

BWAH! Silly it may be, but I like it!

But at least the Doctor was with Jack when he eventually died. And I do think that that's really rather lovely.

I think that's really was one of the only reasons that Jack became the Face of Boe.

Oh, you know what would be mind-bendingly cool? If someday the Doctor would eventually die (for the last time), but does it in, say, 4692 or something. And Jack would be there for him when he died. Ack! I'm tearing up!

Stop it your gonna make me cry. And if would be just like RTD (which I still can't type without typing RDA) to do that. I mean it goes along with the whole soulmates thing I think RTD sees when it comes to The Doctor/Jack.

I think that's really was one of the only reasons that Jack became the Face of Boe.

You could be right.

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Here come the drums...

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