mrv3000 | Hump Day Cynicism

Current Mood: cynical

Entry tags:

doctor who,
new who

Hump Day Cynicism

You know, it's incredible what utter nonsensical shit people spew 'cause canon keeps going in a different direction than what they want, which somehow turns into a transparent attempt to belittle, bully and marginalize a subsection of fandom...and that people BUY it. They eat it up! O_O Not sure if I should be using a cynical mood or an amused mood. Too bad there's no pity mood. And I feel like hauling out, yet again, my exposure to Who fandom. For no apparent reason.

http://mrv3000.livejournal.com/615846.html

Again, Who fandom, you TOTALLY win as I just have never seen anything like this for any other fandom. Never. Nev. Er.

ETA: Have I ever pimped the

oh_she_knows community in a post before? If you like the Doctor/Rose ship, head on over. There's been a lot of fantastic, and intelligent, discussion about the show. And even debate - debate *without* that bullying "you MUST see things my way or I'll throw a whole bunch of labels at you so that hopefully I'll get my way" element to it. Imagine that!

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There's been some pretty choice stuff going on in Trek fandom for decades (although my participation therein ended after DS9 went off the air); what a lot of the Who arguments remind me of is the Original Series vs. The Next Generation crap that went on for like the first three or four seasons of TNG. New Who is an even more radical departure from its origins than TNG was - and no sir, the anoraks don't like it. Not one bit.

I have to confess I don't even stick my head into OG or TWoP just because of the complete battiness I've heard about. What scares me is the level of wank I've seen pop up on LJ, which is supposed to be the comparative bastion of reasoned debate in the current Who fandom.

As I said in

larissa_j's journal a while back when she was throwing up her hands about the fandom, people are gonna ship who they want to ship regardless of whether canon supports it in the least. The people who get so hostile over Rose seem to be compensating for their own insecurities about their pet ship of choice (D/M, although sometimes it's the militant asexualists) because Doctor/Rose is clearly canon and their ships aren't. The only debate, and as far as I'm concerned it can be a quite friendly one (although I'm not so sure about some of the folks in

time_and_chips), is the degree to which the Doctor and Rose were involved in a physical relationship.

The Doctor... does not love Martha. He doesn't even seem to be particularly attracted to Martha. Ten does tend to run to the naturally flirtatious side, but even in Smith and Jones he recoiled in horror as soon as he realized how Martha might be taking his banter.

How the Martha vs. Rose deathmatch plays out for the native audience versus overseas interests me. It does seem to be on a purely class/education level in the UK, whereas some American fen seem determined to make it a racial issue... which usually extends to complaints about how Martha and her family were written in general.

what a lot of the Who arguments remind me of is the Original Series vs. The Next Generation crap that went on for like the first three or four seasons of TNG. New Who is an even more radical departure from its origins than TNG was - and no sir, the anoraks don't like it. Not one bit.

I was nowhere near the Star Trek fandom, and I still heard jokes about it.

What scares me is the level of wank I've seen pop up on LJ, which is supposed to be the comparative bastion of reasoned debate in the current Who fandom.

Unfortunately, having an LJ account doesn't necessarily equate to having logic.

The people who get so hostile over Rose seem to be compensating for their own insecurities about their pet ship of choice (D/M, although sometimes it's the militant asexualists) because Doctor/Rose is clearly canon and their ships aren't.

What gets me is that their issue is with *canon* but that somehow gets transferred into bashing the people that simply like the canon. As if that will make everything aaaaall better.

How the Martha vs. Rose deathmatch plays out for the native audience versus overseas interests me. It does seem to be on a purely class/education level in the UK, whereas some American fen seem determined to make it a racial issue... which usually extends to complaints about how Martha and her family were written in general.

I'm losing track of who's pushing what issue when. And I kinda don't care anymore.

Like I've said in other places, I've seen a *couple* of LJ posts that honestly and intelligently have been discussing the racial issues or stereotypes or other social issues. But by far what I've seen is people pissed off because the Doctor didn't love Martha, who then have been simply *using* issues to throw hissy fits instead of being really interested in discussion and dialog.

What gets me is that their issue is with *canon* but that somehow gets transferred into bashing the people that simply like the canon. As if that will make everything aaaaall better.

I've seen a few in the fandom who correctly transfer their anger to TPTB rather than direct it at other fans, but a lot of those folks also seem to have their own pet issues (like a certain active poster whose every complaint about current Who eventually boils down to them not liking David Tennant as an actor).

Like I've said in other places, I've seen a *couple* of LJ posts that honestly and intelligently have been discussing the racial issues or stereotypes or other social issues. But by far what I've seen is people pissed off because the Doctor didn't love Martha, who then have been simply *using* issues to throw hissy fits instead of being really interested in discussion and dialog.

You mean like over at b_i_b? Yep.

like a certain active poster whose every complaint about current Who eventually boils down to them not liking David Tennant as an actor

Heh heh heh. I'm now picturing arguments about why there was a plot hole in a certain episode being because David Tennant isn't able to cover up the plot hole. Mwah.

You mean like over at b_i_b? Yep.

Don't know what b_i_b is. My main source is my flist, who have been pointing to things because stuff gets linked on newsletters. So it's from everywhere.

Mwah.

I know. All I can say to some of those folks is if you hate the writing and can't abide by the lead actors, why are you still watching the show? Just wait until one or more of these factors change and then try it again.

Don't know what b_i_b is.

It's one of the LJ comms that was set up to talk specifically about Series 3 (and which I'm not going to spell out lest they pull a flyby harassment). I was a member for a while, but the few posts I ever did see on it got rapidly turned into ugly, childish wanks, so I dropped it. I know at least one of them ended up at fandom_wank, so you may have seen it.

I used to read f_w, but then just got kinda bored. Same things, different fandoms. I'll take a look when people point it out nowadays.

Don't know what b_i_b is.

It's

backinblue. A couple of things I linked to last week were from there, so if you clicked on them (which you probably didn't), there you were.

I've probably been there then - at some point. I'm just really bad about paying attention to stuff like that. :D

I need some sort of "huh?" or "clueless" icon. Heh heh.

Who fandom makes me miss Trek fandom liek woah. What I wouldn't give for a good Klingons=Racism or a Kirk vs. Picard wank right about now.

I have nothing intelligent to add to what you said. My cynicism is at an all time high too right now. Fandom is just making it worse.

Also, I hear the mods at

oh_she_knows are SUPER cool and sexy.....What?

I have nothing intelligent to add to what you said. My cynicism is at an all time high too right now. Fandom is just making it worse.

Really, there must be a finding of the inner squee again. I've spammed pretty much *all* of my gallery, but maybe it's time for another... Oh! I think I might have a theme for something different! :D

Also, I hear the mods at oh_she_knows are SUPER cool and sexy.....What?

*nods* Well, all except for that

misssara11 person... OH HI!

What's that? You don't want virtual cookies anymore? Okay then.

NOOOOOOOOOOOO! COOKIES!

Well, I know what I''m wanted for. No, no, it's fine. You just want me for my baked goods. And now you messed that up. *shakes head*

*wiggles eyebrows*

And bless 'em, take on some really insane tasks like running a 60+ person ficathon where they've got to vet all the entries.

T-5 and counting! I can't wait!

Bless one of us because she's doing it all on her own. I understand that mentality though. You want it done a certain way, you do it yourself. Though, I've been on stand-by to help if she needs it.

By herself?!

I'm sure after having to go through all those entries, at least one of which is probably longer than she thought everyone's entries combined together might be (not mine, I've just seen a 100+ pager mentioned), she may rethink that strategy in the future. :)

I actually have great sympathy for the people who post these things as well as those who praise it. They very obviously need some help. I don't feel anything but pity for all of them.

It's funny, because I think it's *meant* to guilt shippers into seeing how "wrong" they are - like I'm gonna suddenly say "Oh HEY! I need to totally give up my ship!" - but it just has me wondering, yet AGAIN, why there is this complete and utter obsession with fandom groups. Who cares what I believe? My soul doesn't need saving, thanks very much.

Just requested to join

oh_she_knows, hopefully I'll be accepted *crosses fingers*

After reading the rules I realised that my profile actually doesn't put across my complete inability to not going more then 2 days without posting about DW even if I don't want to :D

MWAH! 2 days? Try 2 hours. *twitches*

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Hump Day Cynicism

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