Fandom

[mrv3000]

DW fandom has made me cranky of late. Some days it's just really hard to be zen about it, especially when the fandom group you're in is constantly accused of being these rabid, vicious fans -- but no one ever POINTS to any examples other than shippers having the gall to defend themselves in a D/R community or in their own journals, and I've yet to see a D/R shipper storm a Martha community -- while at the same time being kicked at, being called stupid and ignorant and 16-year-olds because what we ship is flat-out wrong. And lately, called even worse for continuing to ship a pairing no longer onscreen.

This essay is by someone who I don't think is a D/R shipper - I believe her main fandom is Harry Potter. But it has all caught her eye, and she directly addresses what's been going on in Who fandom. It's very well thought out.

"The great difference between voyages rests not with the ships, but with the people you meet on them."

A while back, a locked Doctor/Rose community was created because of people just outright tired of the berating. It seemed like a fantastic plan (it still is) - we're playing with our own ball in our own corner. No one bothers no one. But apparently that was also wrong in that the ones doing the kicking no longer had as much stuff to kick - and so now Doctor/Rose shippers are "anti-community" as well for locking stuff up. Which conveniently ignores the fact that they themselves are the reason we have gone elsewhere.

People don't like a pairing. That's fine. Or don't like a character. Also fine. But how that's somehow turned into it being acceptable to smash fans just for liking what they don't, I really will never understand.

Comments

[shaela]

DW fandom has made me cranky of late.

Just lately? Oh, honey. *hugs*

What I don’t get is how taking the author at his word makes us the nutters.

And how rooting for the hero to get a happy ending makes us the bad guys.

And how playing quietly in our own corner so we don’t bother anyone makes us “anti-community.”

Oh, well. I guess if it made sense, it wouldn’t be fandom.

[ivydoor.livejournal.com]

I've come to the conclusion that some people will not be happy until we swear our undying loyalty to their philosophy. It must suck for them, because I know I'll never see things the way they do. It must be hard going through life pinning all their happiness and contentment on the desire to have everyone be just like them because life doesn't work that way.

*sigh*

I honestly feel sorry for folks who feel that way. All that bile will eat them from the inside out. How anyone can keep up that sort of frenzy is beyond me. I can't fathom it. It must be miserable.

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

Just lately? Oh, honey. *hugs*

Heh heh. Okay, DW fandom has always made me a bit nuts. For the longest time I had a natural flinch reaction to anyone who mentioned they'd watched Who prior to 2005. But lately is really when the cranky face has come out.

What I don’t get is how taking the author at his word makes us the nutters.

Heh. So often I have this, "We're the insane ones? No really, *we're* insane? How does this work?"

And how rooting for the hero to get a happy ending makes us the bad guys.

I've given up on trying to figure that one out long ago.

And how playing quietly in our own corner so we don’t bother anyone makes us “anti-community.”

Like the person mentioned in the essay, it seems we must do everything in public to give everyone a chance to smack it down - because it isn't valid unless it can be countered. Where it will be countered to show it isn't valid. Basically, they're pissed at the thought of people shipping without them getting to point out how wrong they are.

Oh, well. I guess if it made sense, it wouldn’t be fandom.

This is true.

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

I just keep thinking that *they're* thinking if they smack us around hard enough, we'll eventually come to our senses and see things the "proper" way. And all the smacking around has really done has made us dig down even deeper.

And actually, in one instance has made me give up a classic fanon notion I'd gotten from reading opinions and so on when I first got into fandom. I was happily going along with this non-canon belief from Old Who, when someone pressed the issue, saying it was absolute fact. Someone else brought up canon points to the contrary. And now I think I'm dumping that old notion. Whoopsie. :D

[kammgirl.livejournal.com]

I have been dealing with it for so long as from the beginning I was called an AIM stalker (which is ironic as we see who is really doing the stalking,) batshit and everything else under the sun. Like many other Rose and D/R fans, I stepped back and stuck to LJs or places with like minded people. And still they follow us. Are they that bored with S3? Why do they care what shippers like and why is it such a sore point that we are in a locked comm? Do they need to see what we are posting that badly? Martha must truly be a disappointment to them if a year later they are still so obssessed with Rose and what her fans are doing.

[ivydoor.livejournal.com]

Exactly. They keep pounding away until we were underground. Once we were there, we looked around, dug a series of tunnels, and stocked up on snacks and booze. They put us here and now they're pissy they don't have punching bags any more. Heh.

Oh, that sounds interesting. What canon was that exactly then?

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I just do not understand why they're just so *obsessed* with what we do. Who cares what fans do? There're probably a group of fans that do nothing but make Doctor/Master ship vids to Celine Dion songs and meta all the day long about how they're soul-mates. Why should I care?

Okay, I take part of that back as I think I'd really want to see a Doctor/Master vid to a Celine Dion song. :D

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

Oh, it was the idea that the Doctor was in love with Susan's grandmother - that OTP kind of love forever and ever. Not *everyone* in Whodom goes with this, but I'd seen a few people talking about it. And when it came down to it, I just thought it was *nice* to think that way.

However, there's absolutely nothing in canon to support this. And in fact, there have been a couple of times in New Who where the Doctor's made cracks about marriage, as well as talking to that couple in Father's Day saying he's never had their kind of life.

It's all *completely* vague though, so you still could go any way you want, but I think I'm now going with the notion that the Doctor might have been less than thrilled with the whole Susan's grandmother thing. We don't even know if they were married, but if so, possibly a marriage of pressures of society? Wouldn't surprise me as Time Lords are dicks.

They may shoot me dead, but the moral high ground is mine.

[principia-coh.livejournal.com]

Old Schoolers for Doctor/Rose Unite! *raises hand* Been watching for over 25 years, and to me, anyone who doesn't see that relationship is wearing blinders.

Oh, I love how one of the commenters tries to call carlanime out - they're not the author of the specific post that prompted carlanime's missive, but they're one of the biggest threadjackers/bullies over at b_i_b, and probably elsewhere as well. Anyone who says the slightest thing against Martha - even if it's to complain that writers did badly by her - is a vile racist. Because clearly she wasn't the victim of bad writing (or acting, depending on who you ask), but rather a conspiracy on the part of the white male writers to do... something. I don't know, they've never been coherent enough for me to figure out what the hell they were talking about.

Anyhoo, some of this crap starts to remind me of that fan-ranking thing from a few years back, where the ultimate object of scorn from other fans was Mary Sue K/S Slash Furry Fanfic Writers Where Kirk Is an Ocelot or Something. Many people will always try to find someone to whom they can feel 'superior,' and take their frustrations out on.

As someone once said, boys will be boys, but eventually someone has to stop them from taking the conch and killing Piggy. We shippers simply chose to take our red rubber ball to another playground, and that drives the bullies mad.

[ex-spockette108.livejournal.com]

I have no words, really. Other than possibly "holy CRAP, DW fandom terrifies me."

[avoria.livejournal.com]

Gosh, I am right there with you. It just gets silly when users get at fans because of their preferred ship/character.

As far as the "there is a locked comm, therefore it must be anti-community" argument goes... that's pretty much the same argument that goes 'you have nothing to fear if you have nothing to hide'. You know, when new laws are brought out and such.

Obviously, by there being a comm that is flocked down, it must be because it's hiding from the fandom and is doing disreputable things. We must all be sitting around cauldrons being evil and plotting how to storm the pro-Martha communities and LJs... oh, wait...

I, like you, have yet to see any of the Rose/Doctor shippers rudely barge into a Martha/Doctor shipper's LJ and berate them. Yet I've had it happen to me, if only in mild form. And I happen to know a lot of people who ship both of them, and they're lovely.

It's just a pity you get the odd one who gives the whole lot of them a bad name. The same goes for the Rose-shippers, actually. It's always the ones who do crazy shit that isn't well thought of, that get assigned to the default Rose/Doctor or Martha/Doctor shipper roles. Never mind the fact that most of us are actually normal and just want to get on with our happiness without being disturbed.

Sheesh. I am sick and tired of fandom politics *headdesk*

Here endeth the rant. Sorry to do so in your journal *dusts*

Re: They may shoot me dead, but the moral high ground is mine.

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

And old schooler D/R fan! You're like finding a rare spotted two-beaked peacock in the desert! :D

I didn't read all the comments over in the post, and now I don't think I really care to go back to look...

But yeah, I think there is a lot of needing to feel superior going on. Me? I just wanna play.

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

It's a wee bit nuts, yeah. And I thought SG-1 fandom was bad. HA!! SG-1 fandom has *nothing* on DW fandom. HP still wins all, but DW fandom has got to be in the top 10 somewhere.

[ex-spockette108.livejournal.com]

I never thought I'd see the day when Sgwun fandom was used as the example of a vaguely sane fandom, but...it's so true. Oh, Sam/Jack. How I miss you.

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

Obviously, by there being a comm that is flocked down, it must be because it's hiding from the fandom and is doing disreputable things.

Well, you know, there *is* that weekly ritual with the robes and candles and sheep that we do. The sage and citrus candles are great, but putting those sheep into robes is mighty wicked.

Never mind the fact that most of us are actually normal and just want to get on with our happiness without being disturbed.

Amen.

Sheesh. I am sick and tired of fandom politics *headdesk*

And it's just so hard to avoid.

Here endeth the rant. Sorry to do so in your journal *dusts*

Rant away! :D

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

Tell me about it!

[makesometime.livejournal.com]

For the longest time I had a natural flinch reaction to anyone who mentioned they'd watched Who prior to 2005.

Ooh, I'm very aware of that too. I don't see why, if you haven't watched the old series, you should feel less secure in your fannishness.

I freely admit I haven't watched Old!Who, though I have some knowledge (thanks to you, in part :D) and I don't really want to associate with people who think that if you only enjoy the new series then you SUCK. Because some people like me just like things shiny and new.

It's sad that some people feel the need to hide that. I'm proud of my ooooh!shiny opinions :D

(Sorry for rambling on about one point you made.... :D)

[makesometime.livejournal.com]

And in that, my entire point was lost by not saying that I was aware of it because it's often a lie... Oops. I got carried away...

[aj.livejournal.com]

You are so cute. *pinches your cheeks*

[marble-rose.livejournal.com]

:( *kicks fandom*

I'm so tired of this stuff. And I'm tired of being tired of it. I'm going to go look at your touch picspam to remind myself that, no, fandom doesn't always suck.

[miladyhawke.livejournal.com]

Hey, love - you got screencaps of the original rant, or know anybody who might? Somebody wants it for something ;)

[shaela]

For the longest time I had a natural flinch reaction to anyone who mentioned they’d watched Who prior to 2005.

I know the feeling. I just started watching the classic series. (Seven and Ace! So cute!) For the longest time, I was afraid that what I thought about the new series would be contaminated if I watched the old one.

[earenwe.livejournal.com]

After being involved with the HP fandom for years, I just give up on batting an eye at it, I suppose. There will always be people out there like this and if that's what they want to do with their time, so be it. From my involvement in the DW fandom so far I've had nothing but a positive experience; and who do I choose to discuss things with? The so-called "rabid" D/R fans who are nothing of the sort and who are, in fact, some of the nicest, well-spoken fans I've come across.

So let them wallow in their hatred and let you guys continue to be fantastic, which, really, isn't too difficult. :o)

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

At this moment I really wish Hya was in the DW fandom. Because she would totally do one. :D

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

*is tired of being tired of it too*