mrv3000 | I am wrecked.

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rome

I am wrecked.

Just finished all of S2, and there were definitely a few times I teared up over the last half of the season.

Eirene. Woe. I cried. And all for what? Gaia's killing her didn't make much sense to me, other than she was a heartless bitch. Of course, could have been she was just trying to make Eirene have a miscarriage and didn't really intend to kill her. Did not like Gaia - couldn't believe she wound up with Pullo - and cared not a lick when Pullo killed her and dumped her in the water. There was absolutely nothing sympathetic to me about Gaia unlike someone like Atia, who was also a heartless bitch, but had her moments.

Antony. Believe it or not, I kinda teared up when he was talking about wanting to die by a Roman sword and so on. He was a character where I'd keep flopping back and forth - hating him sometimes, liking him other times. I *kinda* thought maybe it was a trick by Cleopatra at first (don't remember my history and if this was or wasn't fact), but her servant sold it so well, even I ended up believing it was true. I gasped when Cleopatra appeared, very much alive. :D

Lucius. *CRIES* Why'd he have to die? *CRIES AGAIN* At least he reconciled with his children first, but still. *sobs* You know, I'm kinda glad the show has ended now. Not sure if I'd want to watch if it's no longer the Lucius and Pullo Show.

One thing I loved about this entire series was that it didn't try to go for any deep themes or make any social statements, and it was no morality play. Good didn't triumph over evil (nor evil over good), and in fact, you'd be hard-pressed to find a black-and-white example of either.

Pullo had a great story arc - he started out as this fairly dumb soldier who never did any of his own thinking. But he definitely came into his own. He's a walking example of "with age comes wisdom."

Gotta say, Caesar was creepy and weird. I liked him in the first season when he was a kid, but in the second season, he seemed psychotic. Don't know how accurate that is to history, but man. CREEPY. And his wife was a bit psychotic as well. Heh.

Wow. This was a fantastic series, and I don't think I mind that it ended where it did. Seems like that story has now been told, especially since Lucius died. It's an ending to a main part of the story.

But I very much wouldn't mind if the people who put this together now did other historical soap operas. Because that would undoubtedly rock a whole hell of a lot. Like... Troy. Or Genghis Khan. Or Montezuma. Anything!

Okay, I think I've had my fill of grand tragedy for a while. Really.

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So, you think Vorenus definitely died, do you...?

Well, he looked pretty bad off. I *guess* they could have said he pulled through if they'd gone to a third season...

I forget where I saw it, but I read an interview with the producer in which he said they left it vague on purpose, and you could decide for yourself. I'm pretty sure he even said he liked to think Vorenus pulled through. I mean, he made it all the way back to Rome without dying. And Pullo lied about Caesarion to Augustus; he might have been lying abouy Vorenus as well. He didn't have a mourning beard, as I recall. Hmmm. I may need to re-upload my Lucius/Pullo OTP icon.

And yeah, Augustus was creepy as all hell. I hated that they recast him, because I loved Max Pirkis in the role, but I don't know that he could have sold the creepy as well.

Oh, huh. I guess it never crossed my mind that he could be alive, just from the way everything happened.

And having time to ponder now, I think they might have gone a bit *too* creepy with Augustus. He was kinda getting into caricature territory. He became a wee bit two-dimensional, where everyone around him was very much three-dimensional.

I really, REALLY loved this show while it was on. And I have some of it tagged as such. And you just revived my love for it. So I bought s2 over the weekend and actually geeked out with my BIG BAD BOSS over it on Friday during the company picnic over TWO HUNDRED AND FORTY DOLLAR sipping bourbon.

Yeah. This show. :D Love it.

Bonding over Rome! And it deserves the $240 bourbon.

You see what I mean about Octavian?? That boy was a walking train wreck. He was not human.

I loved the arc Pullo had as well. He may not have had the easiest road, but you could see by the end that he would be alright because he had something to live for.

So what did you think of Servilia's "dramatic exit"? I at least felt sympathetic towards Atia by that point because she may have been a conniving bitch, but she was as much a victim of circumstances as everyone else. When Servilia offed herself my reaction was more "Oh, thank god!" than "OMG!"

And how cute was Agrippa & Octavia? I felt so bad for them but it gave me no end of giggles about how Atia knew without ever being told.

You see what I mean about Octavian?? That boy was a walking train wreck. He was not human.

Totally. I commented up above that he was starting to get a bit too creepy for my tastes.

I loved the arc Pullo had as well. He may not have had the easiest road, but you could see by the end that he would be alright because he had something to live for.

Yeah. And I really do love that he became a better person by the end of it all.

So what did you think of Servilia's "dramatic exit"? I at least felt sympathetic towards Atia by that point because she may have been a conniving bitch, but she was as much a victim of circumstances as everyone else. When Servilia offed herself my reaction was more "Oh, thank god!" than "OMG!"

Yeah. I know I should have felt for Servillia after Atia had her tortured, but when I looked at Servillia, it was a person who was just pure hate. She had no heart and was completely consumed by revenge. Atia still cared about people - not Servillia, but others. I mwahed at Atia at the end to Octavian's wife about other better people trying to bring her down. Heh.

And how cute was Agrippa & Octavia? I felt so bad for them but it gave me no end of giggles about how Atia knew without ever being told.

I also liked that Atia and Octavia seemed to really bond through that. And while I hope Octavia would never get to the level of Atia, I did find it amusing when Octavia became a bit more snarky like her mother.

I think the turning point for me with the Atia/Servilia deathmatch was the realization that although Atia's a bitch of the first order, she at least loves her children and wants the best for them. She may go to horrifying extremes for them, but still. Servilia only seemed to care for Brutus in a what can he do for me kind of way, which soured me on her.

Yeah, that's probably the distinction for me as well - how each treated their children. Servillia was not only willing, but insistent that Brutus sacrifice himself for her own personal vengeance.

I cried when Eirene died and was a mess when Lucius reconciled with his kids. He hung on for that. Now he can go be with Niobe. And Pullo was right by his side. Antony and Cleoptra did make me weepy and I believe that Octavia will be good to their children. Poor Octavia. She is a character that was used as a pawn by so many people, but she still loved her family. I was sorry that the close relationship between she and Caesar ended (heh not the incestuous part) but she was the one person he truly loved.

And after all she did to get where she was, Atia was utterly miserable at the end. Rome had so many grey areas and you are right there were equal amounts of good and badx.

I cried when Eirene died and was a mess when Lucius reconciled with his kids. He hung on for that. Now he can go be with Niobe. And Pullo was right by his side.

*sobs again*

Antony and Cleoptra did make me weepy

You know, the show didn't go overboard with ending on "big" moments. But that one episode that ended with "Antony" "Cleopatra" - was just so COOL. The music and everything.

and I believe that Octavia will be good to their children. Poor Octavia. She is a character that was used as a pawn by so many people, but she still loved her family.

Yeah, I think she'll treat them right. Even though she saw her getting the kids for what it was - a political maneuver.

I was sorry that the close relationship between she and Caesar ended (heh not the incestuous part) but she was the one person he truly loved.

But one relationship I was interested in seeing taking off was Octavia and Atia. And this when Octavia truly wanted to kill Atia in S1. Not sure why I liked it so.

And after all she did to get where she was, Atia was utterly miserable at the end. Rome had so many grey areas and you are right there were equal amounts of good and badx.

Atia very much was miserable - she was mourning a person who rejected her, and wasn't allowed to mourn. So Servillia's curse did come true in some ways.

(Not really vexed, but must pet Atia in all her delicious bitchiness now and again. *g*)

OMGEIRENE. *sob*

Not to defend Gaia by any means, because wow, does she not deserve it, but I do think her aim was to only to make Eirene lose the baby. Not because I think she cared whether Eirene lived or died, but making her lose the baby would (by what she certainly understood to be the standards of how these things work) make her less desirable as a wife. Gaia wanted to see Pullo dump her. Dead, she represented the perfect happiness he could never have again. Which ended up working okay for her -- probably better than she could have expected, because she thought they were alike and didn't realize that he was actually capable of love.

I don't think I was ever so grimly satisfied with a plot development in all my life as I was watching Pullo coldly strangle her. I was absolutely foaming about the mind-boggling selfishness of the deathbed confession. And while I would have been perfectly happy to watch her drag on in agony for a few days, he deserved to take her life with his own hands. Which is not something you'll often hear me say, but I still think it's the case. *shudder*

As for Octavian... Yes, by many accounts, he did indeed grow up into a creepy bastard. And Livia is indeed reputed to have been pretty depraved. (Which could, of course, just mean she had the nerve to speak her own opinions, but we'll never know.) I felt like Max Pirkis did a bang-up job of being very nearly an adult, and I really think he could have pulled it off. Frankly, I think the kid acts rings around Bingleytavian. He managed to be creepy, but I didn't buy the smarts anymore.

Not to defend Gaia by any means, because wow, does she not deserve it, but I do think her aim was to only to make Eirene lose the baby.

I kinda think so as well. After all, she could have just poisoned her with any old poison if she just wanted her dead.

I don't think I was ever so grimly satisfied with a plot development in all my life as I was watching Pullo coldly strangle her. I was absolutely foaming about the mind-boggling selfishness of the deathbed confession.

I know. That was just...I wanted her to keep her mouth shut, just because it was something he didn't need to know. Just like how Pullo kept the thing about Niobe from Lucius. He was happier not knowing, and knowing the truth would only bring misery.

And while I would have been perfectly happy to watch her drag on in agony for a few days, he deserved to take her life with his own hands. Which is not something you'll often hear me say, but I still think it's the case. *shudder*

Yeah.

Frankly, I think the kid acts rings around Bingleytavian. He managed to be creepy, but I didn't buy the smarts anymore.

My thoughts exactly.

i cried when Lucius died ,i also loved the Lucius and pullo show , they both were my favs during both seasons.
i felt the same about Anthony, i liked him one minute then hated him the next, i did kinda feel bad about him wanting to die .
The Caesar junior was awful ,he did my head in ,so did cleopatra though aswell. I loved the bitchyness of Atia , especially near the end , when everyone thought she'd given up , then she showed up for the cemmony.

i cried when Lucius died ,i also loved the Lucius and pullo show , they both were my favs during both seasons.

Totally my favorites as well.

i felt the same about Anthony, i liked him one minute then hated him the next, i did kinda feel bad about him wanting to die .

Mostly he was an arrogant jerk, but he did have his moments. (Just loved that about this show - most every character you could find something to like about. Well, except for a handfull of minor characters.)

I loved the bitchyness of Atia , especially near the end , when everyone thought she'd given up , then she showed up for the cemmony.

Yeah, loved that. Even Octavia was smiling and very "mwah" about the whole thing.

And his wife was a bit psychotic as well. Heh

Ultimately, Livia makes Atia look like a kitten. Seriously. We're talking the mother of one of the most notorious tyrants in Roman history (Tiberius), and the start of the bloodline that gave Rome Caligula and Nero.

Atia. Kitten. It's good she put Livia in her place at the ceremony, but not necessarily historically accurate.

You want a good show to view, get I, Claudius. It's dated, but it's still quite excellent - and somewhat closer to actual history. Not nearly as bloody, though.

Ultimately, Livia makes Atia look like a kitten. Seriously. We're talking the mother of one of the most notorious tyrants in Roman history (Tiberius), and the start of the bloodline that gave Rome Caligula and Nero.

Atia. Kitten. It's good she put Livia in her place at the ceremony, but not necessarily historically accurate.

One of those "headdesk" moments for historians, eh? :D

You want a good show to view, get I, Claudius. It's dated, but it's still quite excellent - and somewhat closer to actual history. Not nearly as bloody, though.

I'll have to keep that in mind. Thanks! I'm often keeping my ears/eyes open for things worth watching.

Yeah, there's apparently been at least one citation of Atia being pretty chaste & religious, but then, that's coming from a Wikipedia entry, so I'm not necessarily counting that as accurate ;)

That said, we typically see/hear about all the famous, nasty women in Roman history - and Livia was a force of nature - or enough so, that she was worth mentioning in other places throughout history. Atia, not so much so.

I've kinda gotten over the whole "I must own this" thing in regards to DVDs, but I, Claudius makes my list of "I must own it" (along with Doctor Who seasons 2 & 3, Rome seasons 1 & 2, and Avatar: the Last Airbender season 2).

Ooh ... if you're looking for good brain-candy-in-the-form-of-a-kid's-cartoon, go watch Avatar: the Last Airbender. Excellent character development for a kid's show, characters you can actually care about, and bad guys you can't help but like.

Yeah, there's apparently been at least one citation of Atia being pretty chaste & religious, but then, that's coming from a Wikipedia entry, so I'm not necessarily counting that as accurate ;)

Man, if that were true, she'd probably be rolling her grave that 2000 years later she's depicted like that.

That said, we typically see/hear about all the famous, nasty women in Roman history - and Livia was a force of nature - or enough so, that she was worth mentioning in other places throughout history. Atia, not so much so.

Probably true of a lot of people in history - the notorious catch our attention.

I've kinda gotten over the whole "I must own this" thing in regards to DVDs, but I, Claudius makes my list of "I must own it" (along with Doctor Who seasons 2 & 3, Rome seasons 1 & 2, and Avatar: the Last Airbender season 2).

Ooooh.

Ooh ... if you're looking for good brain-candy-in-the-form-of-a-kid's-cartoon, go watch Avatar: the Last Airbender. Excellent character development for a kid's show, characters you can actually care about, and bad guys you can't help but like.

Huh. Might have to keep my eyes open for that as well.

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I am wrecked.

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