mrv3000 | (no subject)

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torchwood

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The Torchwood DVDs come out soon, and I'm debating Netflixing them to try watching the series again. I got mid-way through the second episode and had a "why am I watching this?" moment, and walked away.

Thing is I kinda want to watch when Martha turns up in Torchwood. I'm telling you, her character became exponentially more interesting to me in the final DW eps - she got honest-to-God character development! Finally! Plus, I had to admire the fact that she self-actualized without needing anyone's validation, even the Doctor's. (Why couldn't this have been done in episode 3? BAH!) To me that was 100 times more kick-ass than any commando moment.

Anyway! I'd like to at least watch the Martha episodes of Torchwood. I'm thinking it'd be better to watch stuff that's come before. Yes? No? Also, will I need to get drunk to watch the DVDs?

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haha. I love Torchwood for all it's crack. It's my guilty pleasure. I think the trick is to not take it seriously what-so-ever.

Maybe I was expecting too much? Or maybe I do need to be drunk. :D

lol. My friend was the same way when she started watch the show. She didn't get it because she WAS expecting too much.

The show is probably funnier if you're drunk. You need to be to enjoy the finale. Go for it!

MWAH! This might be a new weekend thing. :D

I think the trick with Torchwood is to embrace the cheesetastic goodness. You can't take it seriously; you just can't, or desperation will set in. Failing that, though, watching it drunk is an excellent backup plan.

*posts to LJ* "Well, I watched 5 minutes before I had to start hitting the vodka..." :D

*posts to LJ* "Well, I watched 5 minutes before I had to start hitting the vodka..." :D

Hee! Vodka and the MST treatment, especially for the early episodes, is a big help.

Ooooh. I COULD MSTy them...

They are definitely MSTifyable. :D

The second half of TW S1 is exponentially better than the first. Watch "They Keep Killing Suzie" and then "Out of Time," "Captain Jack Harkness" and "End of Days" (necessary season-ender and character development, if also arguably the biggest "WTF?!?!" of the series) for context. Those OoT and CJH are, IMHO, the best two episodes of the series and even rival the best of DW.

Thing with TW is that the least likable character--Owen--also has the most complete and logical character arc, which is helped by the fact that Burn Gorman may just be the strongest actor in the ensemble. I like Tosh, but she's hardly developed at all until CJH, which is a very good ep for her and Jack; you start seeing a lovely big brother/little sister relationship there. Gwen is uneven, though her arc makes some sort of sense overall, and Ianto? I just don't get him at all. How he gets from "I'll laugh while you die, Jack! Woe to my emo soul!" to "Here's your coffee, Sir. Would you like some sex with that?" is completely unexplained. Jack is largely the Man of Mystery, obnoxiously so at times. Thankfully, the writers improved his dialogue after some real clunkers of Dramatic Speeches early on, and JB's acting is finally catching up to his charisma.

I'd say that was my 2 cents, but it's more like a dime. Keep the change.

Those OoT and CJH are, IMHO, the best two episodes of the series and even rival the best of DW.

You know, I think I could get through the early eps if I knew it got a whole lot better.

I just don't get him at all. How he gets from "I'll laugh while you die, Jack! Woe to my emo soul!" to "Here's your coffee, Sir. Would you like some sex with that?" is completely unexplained.

Erg. I know that'll probably bug the crap out of me.

Jack is largely the Man of Mystery, obnoxiously so at times. Thankfully, the writers improved his dialogue after some real clunkers of Dramatic Speeches early on, and JB's acting is finally catching up to his charisma.

You know, I think part of my hangup with Torchwood might have been Jack himself - he *wasn't* the character I knew from Doctor Who. Plus the Dramatic Speeches.

*keeps change*

You know, I think I could get through the early eps if I knew it got a whole lot better.

There are some fairly good eps early on, too, "Ghost Machine" being one of them (when Owen gets some karmic comeuppance--I actually kinda like the bastard, though). They do get a lot better by the end of the season, though.

Ianto's cute as heck, as you've noticed, and I think he and Jack could've had a really interesting relationship story if only the writers had *bothered*. It just begs for filling in. As it was, I was kind of like, "What? Why's Ianto propositioning Jack? How'd that happen?" There's all of one statement (in CJH) that gives some hint as to Teaboy's thought processes, which makes it very frustrating. Most people seem to give it a pass on account of pretty boys kissing.

Yeah, they gave Jack some fairly dire dialogue early on. It got better after someone realized not even Captain Picard could pull off the Dramatic Speeches they were writing. Eve Myles and Burn Gorman could act circles around JB at first, too. Word on S2 is that Jack is back closer to the guy we saw on DW now that he's made his peace with the Doctor. Less angst to have to emote through. Really, though, JB does some wonderful work in OoT and especially CJH. I'm optimistic that EM and BG won't totally be leaving him in the dust in S2.

It got better after someone realized not even Captain Picard could pull off the Dramatic Speeches they were writing.

MWAH.

Word on S2 is that Jack is back closer to the guy we saw on DW now that he's made his peace with the Doctor. Less angst to have to emote through. Really, though, JB does some wonderful work in OoT and especially CJH. I'm optimistic that EM and BG won't totally be leaving him in the dust in S2.

That'd be nice. I love Jack on DW, but in the wee bit of Torchwood I saw - not so much.

How he gets from "I'll laugh while you die, Jack! Woe to my emo soul!" to "Here's your coffee, Sir. Would you like some sex with that?" is completely unexplained.

*falls over laughing*

And just what CAN they do with that stopwatch? I'm confoozled.

I understand there are many theories, but honestly? Not sure I want to know.

It's just...every time I see that scene, I flash back to Christopher Walken's bit in Pulp Fiction, and...ew.

Hence the drinking.

You cannot see Torchwood as a Who show. You have to see it as porn that is vaguely connected to the Who universe. Probably via huge ammounts of duct tape.

That was probably some of my problem. Even Jack himself really wasn't the Jack I knew from DW.

I kinda liked that about him. He really changed after Rose did this weird thing to him that had more consequences than anybody could have known... And we don't know what happened to him in the meantime. How he got to Earth and end up with TW. But it seeems like he did a lot of porn during that time. Or something. I think it's high time that we learn a bit more about what happened to him and why he changed. But if he hadn't changed at all, I probably would have been a little bit cross.

It will probably help that I know this about him now - I've seen the Doctor resolution and know where Jack's head-space is. Seeing him back when I first tried watching, it was jarring to me because you really had no idea what had happened. But I could buy it knowing what I know now.

I said "WTF!" after the first episode but for some strange reason I'd addicted to cracktastic shows...

I'm hoping for an improvement in season two.

Well, some shows do need to hit their stride. SG-1's a good example.

I've read a few reviews that were only vaguely spoilery for episode 1 of Series 2, and everything I've seen indicates that it's much, much better than Series 1. So I'm quite hopeful.

I would not try re-watching the second episode, as it is certainly one of if not the weakest episode. Also, if you have a horror squick, I'd avoid the 6th episode, "Countrycide". The 9th episode, "Random Shoes" reminds me most unfortunately of DW's "Love & Monsters," and is not advisable either. If you can deal with the cheezy "Fight Club" aspects of it the 11th episode, "Combat," is pretty good and written by Noel Clark (Mickey).

"Cyberwoman" may require especially high levels of alcohol to get through it. It has its enjoyable aspects, but those aspects are generally overwhelmed by Ianto's emo, and the utter cheeziness of the Cyberwoman (and trying to figure out why the Cybermen thought a metal bikini was a good idea is fairly distracting, too).

The ones I really liked are: 1x03 "Ghost Machine", 1x05 "Small Worlds," 1x07 "Greeks Bearing Gifts," 1x08 "They Keep Killing Suzie," 1x12 "Captain Jack Harkness" and 1x13 "End of Days" (although truthfully, EoD I like best because of the ending).

As others have said, the most dislikable character, Owen, got the most character development. Tosh and Ianto seem like they could be interesting, but didn't get much in the way of development. Gwen is frustrating, and there's a lot of Gwen-bashing in fandom, because she seems like she should be likable, and is a lot of the time, but also she does a lot of really stupid and morally dubious stuff. And Jack is a cypher throughout much of the series - oh, I forgot! Episode 10 has some good character development for Jack.

Hopefully that wasn't more than you needed to know. :-)

Also, if you have a horror squick, I'd avoid the 6th episode, "Countrycide".

I've seen people compare it to the X-File's "Home" and...I could totally skip that Torchwood ep then.

The 9th episode, "Random Shoes" reminds me most unfortunately of DW's "Love & Monsters," and is not advisable either.

I'll probably skip it then. I wound up liking L&M more than I thought I would back when I watched during S2, but since then I've had zero desire to watch it again. Beyond, you know, the teeny Doctor and Rose parts.

Gwen is frustrating, and there's a lot of Gwen-bashing in fandom, because she seems like she should be likable, and is a lot of the time, but also she does a lot of really stupid and morally dubious stuff.

Oy poodles. Gwen struck me as just really bland, honestly. Eh.

Hopefully that wasn't more than you needed to know. :-)

No, that's good. I think my plan of attack is to not bother watching the rest of the 2nd episode and skip those other two - "Countrycide" and "Random Shoes."

Ah ... my bad. I said ep. 4. I forgot "Small Worlds" was ep. 5 ... that's the one I meant. I really enjoyed that one.

It's not really a well-written show, as much as it is about hot half-gay Welsh people. IDK.
Don't take it seriously.
I came home one night after...a bit of drinking, and it was really hilarious.

HA! Yeah, I really do think I need to Netflix and drink. :D

It took me about 4 episodes before it really caught my attention. The thing is, I didn't really like a lot of the characters (to me, Owen still looks like frog), didn't like some of the character interaction, but something kept me watching.

Of course, Capt. Jack can show me how to fire a gun *any day*.

I think I could give it another shot - it's not like there are that many episodes in a series.

I can't really add much more than anyone else, other than I have THE most unpopular fandom opinions of Torchwood ever.

I stay away from fandom mostly, because I'll get killed.

That's a good moto for DW fandom as well. :D

Yeah... the Jack/Ianto fans are the scary fans of TW. Eek.

I like Torchwood just fine - although I have to look at is as a sci-fi soap opera. I liked the episodes MORE after watching them with my mom (sort of how I ended up liking S3 because of viewing it with the family unit).

Back when I did a fandom meme asking about favorite character, no one could guess who my favorite character in TW was. It was Owen, who is the most despisable, lowly creature in the entire show and he has the best written storyline. Looks? Not so much, but he's one of the best realized characters in the show. "Out of Time" is quite possibly my favorite episode in the entire first season. I realize I am crazy for "liking" Owen, but then, I'm pretty damn crazy anyways.

I admit that I am looking forward to Martha in Torchwood. I think she just might be a better fit there than in DW - but we'll see.

If this character got the most character development, I probably wouldn't find it a stretch to like him best. Or at least be the most interested in him, even if he's not that great of a person.

I wonder if we'll see a vastly different Martha when she turns up.

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