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I made a comment in my other post that I don't think I've ever been actually stunned by a DW episode before. Well and truly STUNNED. This episode did it. It was just...WOW. Best "Doctor-lite" episode of all 4 series. By FAR.

I loved seeing the Doctor and Donna having a good time in some alien bazaar. But you know what it means when people are having a good time on this show, don't you? You don't? Where've you been for the last 4 years?

Alien lattes! Huzzah!
Pardon me a moment.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(What? It's been two frickin years since this last happened!)
So the premise of the story is a "what if" scenario. What if Donna turned right instead of left? What if she never met the Doctor? What if what if what if? It's not an original concept, but it's just GREAT to watch here.

See, here's your first problem. If Donna's not a temp, then she can't be Super Temp^TM and the whole thing goes to hell.
They actually killed off the Doctor! As in...KILLED. No regeneration. Nada. It goes with the notion of the Master (and just about every Doctor incarnation) having to consciously regenerate. (The TV movie went against this, having the Doctor regenerate spontaneously after being dead a while. Any other regenerations? I can't remember them all off the top of my head.)

Why do I find it a wee bit unnerving that the Doctor could actually be taken out if something happened really fast? ETA: Erm...really bad thought here. He was in a really bad place at that moment. Maybe he simply chose not to regenerate. :(
ROSE! The first thing I noticed about her was how worn she looks. Haunted, almost. Dark circles under the eyes, much thinner... I'm thinking life hasn't been a never-ending picnic with puppydogs and rainbows for her in the alt!verse.

She's obviously been coming to this world to warn the Doctor long before this time mixup, since we saw her in "Partners in Crime." Man, she was probably around during the real "The Runaway Bride" too.
I can't believe they killed off EVERYONE in this episode! Everyone but Donna and Rose was killed! The Doctor, Martha, Sarah Jane, Gwen, Ianto...Jack got sent to the Sontaran home world, where he's undoubtedly started to hone skills in military-style sex.

People dying? PFFFT. Donna's taking the frog mouse pad, dammit! :D
Rose keeps popping in and out of Donna's life, taking on a very unfamiliar role for her character: she knows everything (and I mean everything) but she's keeping Donna and the audience in the dark. When last we saw Rose, the character was used as sort of the audience's eyes (like the companion role in general tends to be), so this was a bit jarring. She warns Donna to leave town for Christmas, knowing London will be destroyed. Of course, she doesn't say London will be destroyed – doesn't try to alter events. She's starting to sound a bit like the Doctor.

Still Rose, but different.
We're shown just how quickly the world can get turned upside down after London is destroyed. Donna and her family are alive, but they're refugees, living in a cramped house on a kitchen floor. Military rule and eventually labor camps for non-citizens.

Very bleak. For a minute there I was really worried about Sylvia with her depression. Bleak, bleak, bleak.
"Man in a suit. Tall, thin man. Great hair. Some...really great hair." HA!! *LOVES*

Rose: [zones out over the hair]
Donna: Sorry, do you need a minute?
"He needed someone to stop him, and that was you. You saved his life." Which brings it all back to "The Runaway Bride." And I'd agree – the Doctor was in a bad place back then having just lost Rose, and Donna yelled at him to snap him out of it.

Seemed like she was barely getting through to him back then, but it was enough to save his life.
Wow, the more Rose talks, the more she sounds just like the Doctor, right down to the "Sorry. I'm so sorry." in telling Donna she's going to die, telling people not to salute her, and refusing to tell anyone her name.
I've missed Rose's smile. Those were two things that used to go hand-in-hand: Rose and her smile. And we finally get to see it 30 minutes in when Donna's reacting to the TARDIS for the first time.

I'd like to see Rose smiling a lot more, please.
Can I just say that Rose stroking the TARDIS and the TARDIS responding to her – I LOVE it.

[snuffles]
Again with the Doctor likeness. Donna asks about Rose and the Doctor, and Rose sidesteps the question, just like the Doctor.

Boy, between the two of them...
Donna: So are you two actually together?
Doctor: Erm...
Rose: Well...
Doctor: Um...
Rose: Hmm...
Doctor and Rose: [look at each other, grin and skip off out the door holding hands]
Donna: What the HELL was that??
Okay, good. On second watching I picked up on the fact that Rose actually asked Donna if she wanted to see the bug, and after an initial no, she said yes. It seemed kind of a pointless and cruel thing to force Donna to do otherwise. Glad it wasn't a forcing thing.

Hold still, there Donna! You got snagged on one of the Pertwee-era props!
ACK! FORSHADOWING OF DOOM! Well, that's barely forshadowing. That's like blazing neon lights of "DONNA WILL DIE IN THE FINALE!" You have to wonder though. There's going to be something funny happening, the way Rose was talking about time bending around Donna from the day she was born.
My jaw literally dropped when Donna stepped in front of the truck. I was STUNNED.

God, she really will probably wind up sacrificing herself to save the universe in the finale, won't she? I still can't believe that they'd actually kill a companion off permanently. [ignores Adric]
How clueless am I? "Bad Wolf" never even crossed my mind when Rose was whispering those two words. I simply thought "Rose Tyler." But "Rose Tyler" would have translated to "Get your butt down here already, it's time for some hair ruffling." But "Bad Wolf" accompanied with "a warning" translates to "OMFG WE'RE ALL GOING TO DIE."

Fantastic expression! Fear, panic and also an undercurrent of emotions because he knows exactly who Donna talked to.
Bad Wolf everywhere! Which means that BadWolf!Rose saw all this and did something about it way back in TPotW. TRIPPY. I thought I couldn't be any more stunned after Donna stepped in front of the truck, but this pushed me over the edge. I was actually shaking! I seriously cannot remember a single time where a TV show or movie has done that to me! OMG.

Okay, so maybe we should have been paying a liiiitle more attention when Bad Wolf showed up in places like Gridlock and in Torchwood. :D

They even changed the plating above the door! (It's Bad Wolf backwards to reflect out.) And of course the Cloister Bell, which as we all know is Very Very Bad with an extra Side of Bad. Yeah, they're gearing up for one hell of a finale.

[flops]

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OMG, how much love to the production team for their attention to detail? The whole Bad Wolf sequence wouldn't have been so visually stunning if they hadn't done it right.

OMG SO MUCH LOVE FOR THIS EPISODE.

OMG, how much love to the production team for their attention to detail? The whole Bad Wolf sequence wouldn't have been so visually stunning if they hadn't done it right.

I know! I loved the little detail above the door!

OMG SO MUCH LOVE FOR THIS EPISODE.

YES.

Why do I find it a wee bit unnerving that the Doctor could actually be taken out if something happened really fast?

I'm not convinced that this is what happened. I just think he didn't care enough to get out of there in time. I.e., he was that depressed, because it was right after he lost Rose, and Donna wasn't there to snap him out of it.

I've missed Rose's smile.

Yes. So much.

God, she really will probably wind up sacrificing herself to save the universe in the finale, won't she? I still can't believe that they'd actually kill a companion off permanently. [ignores Adric]

I hope not. That would suck so much.

How clueless am I? "Bad Wolf" never even crossed my mind when Rose was whispering those two words. I simply thought "Rose Tyler."

Not to worry, you're not the only clueless one. I hoped that Bad Wolf would have a part of this series, but I didn't think it'd actually happen until it did. OMG.

But "Bad Wolf" accompanied with "a warning" translates to "OMFG WE'RE ALL GOING TO DIE."

*snerk* So true. Especially when combined with the cloister bell and the red light of dooooooooom.

I think I'm the only Rose lover out there that is rather blah about this episode. It just seemed like a let down :hangs head: I'm a bad Rose fangirl.

Why do I find it a wee bit unnerving that the Doctor could actually be taken out if something happened really fast?

I don't think it was the speed of the event that did it. I think what really happened is that without Donna there to snap him out of it, he just *let* himself die--we never actually saw a Time Lord choose to regenerate, but by the Master's example they can choose *not* to. I think that's what probably happened. But the UNIT guy would've had no way of knowing that, so did the best he could explaining it with the information he had.

ETA: Er, yeah. What

beck_liz said. Which I could've, y'know, *read* before I decided to answer myself and wound up parroting her like the monster from "Midnight." *g*

Edited 2008-06-22 02:10 (UTC)

Donna: So are you two actually together?
Doctor: Erm...
Rose: Well...
Doctor: Um...
Rose: Hmm...
Doctor and Rose: [look at each other, grin and skip off out the door holding hands]
Donna: What the HELL was that??

Bwahahaha! I'd imagine something very similar to that would actually happened.

"Man in a suit. Tall, thin man. Great hair. Some...really great hair." HA!! *LOVES*

This line killed me. It was great and completely not what I expected. Has Rusty been reading fanfic? lol

My jaw literally dropped when Donna stepped in front of the truck. I was STUNNED.

OMG, me too! And then she said Bad Wolf. I never ever ever would have thought Bad Wolf would play any part of the finale. A part of me thinks that Bad Wolf is just the phrase for the Doctor to recognize rather than Badwolf!Rose making an appearance unless it's the actual Bad Wolf that's "pulling" her across universes.

I wanna see!! *flails* I still have 3 more hours of work and then an hour or so to get the ep.

I'm not convinced that this is what happened. I just think he didn't care enough to get out of there in time. I.e., he was that depressed, because it was right after he lost Rose, and Donna wasn't there to snap him out of it.

Okay, I had *just* snuck in an edit to that effect. You know...man. I don't like to think that he would have done that, but the guy seriously could have gotten into a "fuck it all" state without Donna there. Just look at him in the Dalek episode. It really was there under the surface for a while.

Not to worry, you're not the only clueless one. I hoped that Bad Wolf would have a part of this series, but I didn't think it'd actually happen until it did. OMG.

I really didn't think Bad Wolf would be part of it. :D

*snerk* So true. Especially when combined with the cloister bell and the red light of dooooooooom.

Uh huh!

...

I...I don't know what to say to that.

I love Doctor-like Rose. We saw it in her back in The Satan Pit, when she takes charge when separated from the Doctor. She's good at taking charge, leading people, and getting things done.

I think the high-pitched noises I made when Billie was in the credits drove my cat out of the room. :D

Hee, her getting distracted by his hair. *heart* And oh man, when Donna asked her if they were... and she didn't answer? I gleed. I'm so easy. (Seriously, Donna would have been like "NO NO NO FOR THE LAST TIME" and Martha would have equivocated. But Rose? Silence is an answer of its own...)

Her smile! That got me, too. She was so serious during all of it, and I worried that she didn't have joy anymore. But when she smiled, oh, that made things better. She's still her!

Well, I had the same thought and was editing my post as you guys were commenting. :D

It's really, really dark and I don't really like the notion, but it does make sense. He was just so broken at that point that I could see it. :(

Bwahahaha! I'd imagine something very similar to that would actually happened.

Why talk about it when you can just grin? :D

This line killed me. It was great and completely not what I expected. Has Rusty been reading fanfic? lol

I know! So amused.

OMG, me too! And then she said Bad Wolf. I never ever ever would have thought Bad Wolf would play any part of the finale. A part of me thinks that Bad Wolf is just the phrase for the Doctor to recognize rather than Badwolf!Rose making an appearance unless it's the actual Bad Wolf that's "pulling" her across universes.

Well, BadWolf!Rose had to at least have put the words on all the banners and the TARDIS. But who knows what else is happening because of her, or if everything else is happening because of something else.

BAH!

I love Doctor-like Rose. We saw it in her back in The Satan Pit, when she takes charge when separated from the Doctor. She's good at taking charge, leading people, and getting things done.

Yup yup yup. It's not like this is really out of the blue for her. You've pointed out the example of her dealing with a situation on her own without his backup.

I think the high-pitched noises I made when Billie was in the credits drove my cat out of the room. :D

There was some hands of joy here. :D

Hee, her getting distracted by his hair. *heart*

I know! Bless.

And oh man, when Donna asked her if they were... and she didn't answer? I gleed. I'm so easy. (Seriously, Donna would have been like "NO NO NO FOR THE LAST TIME" and Martha would have equivocated. But Rose? Silence is an answer of its own...)

It spoke volumes.

Her smile! That got me, too. She was so serious during all of it, and I worried that she didn't have joy anymore. But when she smiled, oh, that made things better. She's still her!

Yup! I really needed to see her smile. I was missing that a LOT until she did it. I was in a chat earlier today, and as someone pointed out - she really didn't have a lot to smile about considering the Doctor was dead and the world was going to hell. But she still smiled about the TARDIS - and you could see that spark there. *pets her*

I liked NuWho since it's beginnings. This episode (and series 4) has set it above my wildest hopes.

Amazing how the Doctor-Lite episode can be so good...

Sounded like they had Rose's return planned for a long time. I'm glad they were able to keep under wraps...

This episode really was definitely a highlight of the entire run for me.

And from what I understand, it was always planned for her to return. And heard they'd scheduled BP at least a year in advance just to make sure they could get her.

when the tardis replied to rose was awesome. my favourite part of the episode next to DT's reaction at the end. He was out of there like a lightning bolt

I loved both those moments. A LOT. So many moments I loved though, but Rose being gentle with the TARDIS and the TARDIS reacting back... It was a reunion I had no idea I wanted to see.

I loved seeing the Doctor and Donna having a good time in some alien bazaar.

I love it whenever this show reminds up that half the time TARDIS travel is just chilling at spas, or crashing garden parties, or buying strange looking fruit. We just get to see the danger because most viewers probably wouldn't watch an hour of The Doctor, Rose and Donna trying on silly hats (I know we would, but still!).

But you know what it means when people are having a good time on this show, don't you?

....do they get kittens? *hopeful*

She's obviously been coming to this world to warn the Doctor long before this time mixup, since we saw her in "Partners in Crime." Man, she was probably around during the real "The Runaway Bride" too.

I have theories! They aren't happy. D: (On the plus side, they will probably also remain theories.)

Seemed like she was barely getting through to him back then, but it was enough to save his life.

He really shouldn't be alone when he's grieving. I like how easily it's taken for granted (before this episode) how Donna affected the Doctor, even if she didn't travel with him. I like that we're reminded how much she's changed by showing the type of person she was, and a rapid growth into the person she is.

I'd like to see Rose smiling a lot more, please.

ME TOO.

Can I just say that Rose stroking the TARDIS and the TARDIS responding to her – I LOVE it.

ME TOO.

Okay, good. On second watching I picked up on the fact that Rose actually asked Donna if she wanted to see the bug, and after an initial no, she said yes.

Yeah. She was also quick to have them shut it off when Donna asked, and reassured her she wouldn't have to see it again. Rose is a lot harder, and more Doctor-like, and that worries me, but there's enough there to...not worry me too much.

ACK! FORSHADOWING OF DOOM! Well, that's barely forshadowing. That's like blazing neon lights of "DONNA WILL DIE IN THE FINALE!"

See, I'm not sure. I think she just meant that Donna. Because that Donna was going on about how her "death" would be a metaphor; that she wouldn't exist when she righted the timelines. But her death was a fact. And I'm not so sure Donna would have come up with the solution if she didn't think she was going to die.

Okay, so maybe we should have been paying a liiiitle more attention when Bad Wolf showed up in places like Gridlock and in Torchwood. :D

Something about it being all over the TARDIS too just cracks me up. It's like she's saying "YEAH! ABOUT DAMN TIME! And use the instant replay on the monitor more often. I've also been trying to tell you to take the trash out for weeks."

They even changed the plating above the door!

Aw! I didn't notice that! Someone in the continuity department deserves a cookie.

I love it whenever this show reminds up that half the time TARDIS travel is just chilling at spas, or crashing garden parties, or buying strange looking fruit. We just get to see the danger because most viewers probably wouldn't watch an hour of The Doctor, Rose and Donna trying on silly hats (I know we would, but still!).

The Silly Hat Episode would be AWESOME! (I love it too.)

He really shouldn't be alone when he's grieving.

Very much no. I mean, we all saw what he was like in S3, and thankfully Martha was around.

I like how easily it's taken for granted (before this episode) how Donna affected the Doctor, even if she didn't travel with him. I like that we're reminded how much she's changed by showing the type of person she was, and a rapid growth into the person she is.

*nods*

See, I'm not sure. I think she just meant that Donna. Because that Donna was going on about how her "death" would be a metaphor; that she wouldn't exist when she righted the timelines. But her death was a fact. And I'm not so sure Donna would have come up with the solution if she didn't think she was going to die.

I thought that might be it, but someone in chat pointed out the fortuneteller's reaction to Donna. :-\

Something about it being all over the TARDIS too just cracks me up. It's like she's saying "YEAH! ABOUT DAMN TIME! And use the instant replay on the monitor more often. I've also been trying to tell you to take the trash out for weeks."

*SNORTS*

Aw! I didn't notice that! Someone in the continuity department deserves a cookie.

They totally do!

It's great that so much forethought went into this who affair. Kinda makes up for the rest of the crap that's on TV.

Sort of like the stoopidity that SciFi did with Charlie Jade. Two episodes in they didn't like the ratings so they cast it a Three in the morning slot.

The Silly Hat Episode would be AWESOME!

It'll be the sort of thing that gets me through to Christmas, I'm sure.

I thought that might be it, but someone in chat pointed out the fortuneteller's reaction to Donna. :-\

I don't remember what she said. I'll have to watch it again (but I'm always skeptical about evil people's predictions to begin with, so there's a chance that no matter what she says I'll just be all "Pffffbtbttt!")

So the premise of the story is a ‘what if’ scenario.

When I was trying to explain it to my mom, I compared it to It’s a Wonderful Life. (And Rose is Clarence. I think that’s brilliant.)

ETA: Erm… really bad thought here. He was in a really bad place at that moment. Maybe he simply chose not to regenerate. :(

That was my first thought, actually.

Can I just say that Rose stroking the TARDIS and the TARDIS responding to her—I LOVE it.

ME TOO. They’d already killed off half a dozen characters I care about, but this scene—this almost made me cry. And it was right after Rose’s big grin, when she got to introduce Donna to the Tardis. *sniff*

Okay, so maybe we should have been paying a liiiitle more attention when Bad Wolf showed up in places like Gridlock and in Torchwood. :D

Well… maybe. Just a little. :D

So much love for this! I have to save your recap for when I am more coherant!

I'm oddly unworried about Donna's foreshadowed death. I mean, we went down this route with Rose before, right? So I'm thinking it's a big red herring meant to distract us from whatever is *actually* going to happen. Which... might even make me MORE nervous than Donna dying. Don't tell me I don't know how to be neurotic! XD

She's obviously been coming to this world to warn the Doctor long before this time mixup, since we saw her in "Partners in Crime." Man, she was probably around during the real "The Runaway Bride" too.

This whole thing is hurting my head so much. Is she just jumping from one parallel world to another? Is that how she knows this isn't the right one? Or is there something non-linear at work? OW, MY HEAD. I think I'm going to need heavy duty painkillers before this is all over. Hmm.

I've missed Rose's smile. Those were two things that used to go hand-in-hand: Rose and her smile. And we finally get to see it 30 minutes in when Donna's reacting to the TARDIS for the first time.

I felt better after she smiled, too. :D I'm a bit weirded out over how cold she was too Donna over her death, but I'm hoping for more background on Rose next week.

Fantastic expression! Fear, panic and also an undercurrent of emotions because he knows exactly who Donna talked to.

*NODS*

That expression was... WOW. I really need puppies and ice cream in this finale. *twitches*

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