mrv3000 | (no subject)

Agreed on Prop 8.

I find it hard to believe that a country that prides itself on being 'the home of the free' and some such can allow their politics to be so blatantly discriminatory.

It reminds me way too much of actual state laws in the last century that banned interracial marriages.

*nod* Seriously, I wish the Union would've shifted a few more "states rights" to the federal government when they won the Civil War. Because related and similar issues to what originally caused the cecession of the South(slavery wasn't the main issue until later) are cropping up now, and if they'd just standardized some stuff beyond "no slavery," we might not have as much of a mess on our hands.

Not to mention, we might be a little more united. Let the states decide the wheres and whens and hows of issues like education, marriage, road-building, etc., but let the federal government deal with what is and isn't legal.

*wishes for the days of the federalist and anti-federalists, whose names actually meant something*

It really does make for a patchwork country at times, doesn't it? Some things I think need to be decided at a state level, but the big things? Like basic rights? Really should be federal.

I keep thinking of miscegenation laws, too.

Even if marriage *was* invented by Christianity/Judaism(which, as you point out, it wasn't), it still shouldn't matter, because of that whole separation of church and state thing. I say, fine, don't let gays be married in churches if churches disagree--I don't know many homosexual couples that want to get married in a church, anyway--but there is just no legal basis to prevent anyone from being married by the Justice of the Peace, and enjoying the same rights and privileges as everyone else.

The only way I can think to get rid of this sexual bigotry is to somehow force the pro-Prop 8 people to spend time with gay couples and see that, no, really, they're not teh evil. It won't work on everyone, but I bet it would sway a significant number of people who literally don't know better because they've been "sheltered" all their lives. Not that gay people are really going to *want* to spend time with the pro-Prop 8 people...

As for exit polls, I spit upon them. It's irresponsible journalism to report with them. Hell, even the regular polls have the major problem that a good chunk of the youth vote doesn't even own a landline, and there's no way to account for that part of the population. Unless you suppose that the number of youth you can't contact via landline is roughly equivalent to the number of youth who say they'll vote and then don't. But I'm really hoping the youth vote turns out for this election. I know I saw a LOT more people my age this morning when I went to vote, and...well, it was the morning. Youth don't get up all that early. This youth doesn't, at least not when she doesn't have to.

I'm not sure how a same-sex couple being married would diminish someone else's marriage in the first place. If the idea that marriage should be held up to the covenants/practices of the church, shouldn't civil marriages in general be outlawed? Those have absolutely nothing to do with the church, but yet they exist and no one seems to have a problem with those unholy unions.

And I've been hearing a lot about polls and cell phones vs. land lines this year. I'm not quite sure how much to factor into that because, as you pointed out, the youngest age bracket tends to have the lowest turnout anyway in addition to saying they're going to vote but then not doing it.

I can't see how a same-sex couple being married would diminish someone else's marriage, either. It's probably one of the stupidest arguements against same-sex marriage, given the flippancy heterosexuals often display in their marriages (hello, reality tv), nevermind the complete irrelevance someone else's marriage would have to my own (if I were married).

I can see why some churches/synagogues/mosques would be against same-sex marriage b/c of the "omg, sin!" aspect. I don't agree with them at all, but I do see where they're coming from. The reason they don't have a problem with civil marriages for heterosexuals is because they don't see those as inherently sinful...well, except possibly the Catholic church, since you're not *really* married unless you're both Catholics and in the church; ditto for Mormons and their temple--but even in those cases, it could potentially be made "right", whereas a same-sex couple could never potentially be made right. Which, to me, is fucked up.

We should just treat it like they do in France. In order for your marriage to be legal, everyone has to get married at city hall/the courthouse. After that, *then* you go have a church wedding, if you want one. But all you actually have to have is the civil service.

It boggles me that anybody could look at Prop 8 and not think, "That's discrimination." Or that anyone could think it has anything to do with education. What the hell?

Locally, though, I am utterly livid that someone went around and stuck Yes on 8 signs in road dividers, on Freeway exits, and and outside a public park; you know, city property. *bangs head on keyboard*

I voted early, and I don't work today, which means...I don't know! I could actually watch election coverage all day. I don't want to go insane though, so I think I will take my Voter Coffee (it tastes like bitter and Democracy!), do laundry, work on Nancy Drew reviews, and maybe make some sort of cooking post. And then go to the Dem HQ and party and drink lots of beer. Or just drink beer, depending on the outcome.

The education angle with Prop 8 boggles my mind. Seriously.

it tastes like bitter and Democracy!

BWAH!!

work on Nancy Drew reviews, and maybe make some sort of cooking post.

WOO!! (Sorry, I'm not as excited about you doing laundry.)

Speaking of, I'm really disappointed that our Local Donut Store Economy is so thriving that we don't have room for a Krispy Kreme. A free Democracy Donut would have gone really well with that Voter Coffee.

The education angle with Prop 8 boggles my mind. Seriously.

I'd laugh if it wasn't working. A co-worker brought it up yesterday (as being taught in elementary schools) and I tried to tell her that it was both against statements made by School Supervisors and, you know, California law. She responded that her dad told her it was true (this woman is 40). Blink.

WOO!! (Sorry, I'm not as excited about you doing laundry.)

That's okay. I'm not that excited about me doing laundry either.

Speaking of, I'm really disappointed that our Local Donut Store Economy is so thriving that we don't have room for a Krispy Kreme. A free Democracy Donut would have gone really well with that Voter Coffee.

We used to have Krispy Kremes around here, but they folded.

I'd laugh if it wasn't working. A co-worker brought it up yesterday (as being taught in elementary schools) and I tried to tell her that it was both against statements made by School Supervisors and, you know, California law. She responded that her dad told her it was true (this woman is 40). Blink.

It's insane, really. The thing they use in the ads is a "first grade field trip to witness a gay marriage." What it actually was, was a first grade teacher got married, and some of the parents organized a surprise to throw rose petals as they left the building. Which was optional, the teacher knew nothing about it ahead of time, and something a group of parents thought would be a nice thing to do for their kids' teacher.

BUT OMG MY CHILD WILL NOW BE FORCED TO GO TO SAME-SEX WEDDING CEREMONIES BECAUSE THE SCARY AD SAYS SO.

Nothing like perpetuating ignorance.

I remember learning this is school (I think). The salvery issue just became the easiest thing to talk about why the Civil War started. Had they actually straightened it out where the states couldn't make laws about "right or wrong" things might have been a lot easier now.

Now we've got 50 views of what's right and wrong...

Yeah. *sighs*

Just wanted to pop in and share this comic for today: http://www.pvponline.com/

Oh and did you hear the Starbucks free coffee is illegal? *sigh* Apparently we can't reward voting now anymore.

Just wanted to pop in and share this comic for today: http://www.pvponline.com/

I saw that! HA!!

Oh and did you hear the Starbucks free coffee is illegal? *sigh* Apparently we can't reward voting now anymore.

I did hear that. So now they have to give coffee to everyone and are calling it a national party. :D

On Saturday or Sunday, the Los Angeles Times ran 5 opinion pieces on Prop 8. One of the writers (I think she was a poli sci professor) pointed out that the ubiquitous "yes on 8" signs have done just what its proponents claim to be against--bringing it into the schools. The kids talk about it in the car after soccer practice, and on the playground. They all have opinions--her 8 yr old daughter has announced that she's voting no on 8. My lunch buddy at work has an 11 yr old who attends a Lutheran school, and he's asked her questions about Prop 8 several times. Apparently one of the teachers who is pro-8 has been talking about it in class. Sheryl told her son about anti miscegenation laws and compared this to them. Whether it passes or not, I'm buying "Hate is not a Family Value' stickers to put on all our cars.

Did you read "candorville" on Sunday? http://candorville.com/2008/11/02/candorville-11208-fritz-golem/

It certainly has gotten everyone talking about it, and probably including the kids people wanted to "protect." It's been everywhere. Including a street corner I drove past the other day, where a group of people was waving "Yes on 8" signs, which included kids. Hmmm.

And funny comic! :D

I fail to understand how allowing gays to marry is going to ruin marraige. are all the people who are presently getting married going to suddenly discover they are gay and divorce?
The one issue that is destroying marriages in this country is divorce-about 50% isn't it?
Such silliness-i hope that Pop 8 fails.

The logic behind it fails me. It really does.

Ah yes, the paper towels. We were perusing the CNN website yesterday in APUSH and saw that article. We decided to ask the people who were out because they were working at polling places if they had to pass out paper towels. They said they didn't and they thought it was rather absurd, but they did have some interesting stories. Like the couple who accidentally went to the wrong precinct and decided they'd just do provisional ballots. A while later they came back and told the precinct workers not to worry about their provisional ballots because they had just found their proper precinct and voted there. Which, the person telling the story says, is a Class A Felony.

Oy poodles. That does sound a bit West Wing-ish, only there it was a joke.

I didn't read any of the other comments on this, but have to say: which...pre-dates recorded history and isn't something invented by Christianity or even Judaism
I wish everyone would realize this. And that people other than Chrisitians get married. (Not that I have anything against Christians, being one myself.) And also, hetrosexuals have not done such a great job protecting the sanctity of the institution. Hearing people say stupid things gets to me.

*nods* To me it's like demanding all grooms everywhere wear bowties, because that's the proper way of doing things. Okay, that's a very trivial example, but it does all come down to forcing people to share one's views when they've really no reason to share those views. Nor should they be expected to share those views.

Exactly. Personally, I have thought at times, when I'm feeling particularly cynical, that instead of letting more people get married, we should just do away with marriage altogether. It really accomplishes the same thing, by putting everyone on the same playing field, and has the added bonus of pissing off everyone instead of just one group.