mrv3000 | (no subject)

Current Mood: thoughtful

(no subject)

I don't talk about politics much on LJ.

This latest brew-ha-ha over Obama's evil mind games with America's children has me puzzling over mindsets. And to show that willful ignorance is equal opportunity, I distinctly remember a few parents getting outraged at Bush Jr. talking to their children. (Different issues - socialism or war - same outrage.)

What kind of children are people raising where certain things are just too dangerous to be heard? So you might not agree with Obama's politics. Or Bush's politics. (Not that either of them would ever get into heavy politics with the wee kiddies, but that's another story.) Has the very act of hearing different ideas become so toxic to our thinking? Surely the children, throughout their lives, will encounter many different philosophies and values and morals from people all around them. Shouldn't the parent want to discuss that with their child? Or is the example given to stick fingers in the ears and simply despise, or at best ignore, anyone who thinks differently?

I'm reminded of Mark Twain's "The Man That Corrupted Hadleyburg," one of those stories you read in high school that stuck with me. Here was a town that prided itself on its virtue. The town's motto was "Lead Us Not Into Temptation." The problem was that the second it was led into temptation, the town fell flat on its face. The townspeople then realized that they couldn't really claim virtue if that virtue was never tested, and the town's motto was changed to "Lead Us Into Temptation."

Over a hundred years ago, Mark Twain mocked the folly of that bury-your-head-in-the-sand thinking. Sure the story is about falling to greed rather than about listening to different ideas, but a hundred years later some still think that the best plan is the ostrich method. As parents, shouldn't the better option be to show that the ideas and values passed to their children can stand up to anything that comes along? Instead of showing that the ideas and values passed along are so fragile, that the child might possibly be "brainwashed" the second a different idea is heard?

Threaded | Top-Level Comments Only

ILU. ♥ I see this must-pack-my-kids-in-bubblewrap mentality all the time in the homeschool community. Most of the time, when they find out were one of those weirdo secular families, my kids are shunned. They even fear the viewpoints of other children.

I can't decide if it's fear or laziness (you mean you have to actually talk to your kids about things?) on the part of the parent when they do that. Maybe both.

I'm wondering if there's somewhere to view this speech. I'd sort of like my own kids to watch it, but I haven't heard if it'll be broadcast anywhere.

I'm sure there will be. It wouldn't surprise me if it was on the White House site.

You're thinking logically and WE CAN'T HAVE THAT!

Besides, he's black!

Avert your eyes! From all of it!

The best commentary I've heard about this came from a Texas principal. She basically said, "You may not agree with anything President Obama says or stands for, which is fine. But you cannot balk at him speaking to the nation's children when he's the president."

And I love all the people flailing around and frothing at the mouth because they believe Obama's talk to the kids was indoctrination. Wasn't the whole point of his talk to encourage kids to stay in school and try hard? God forbid!

The whole thing seems incredibly ridiculous. I haven't heard one good argument yet for shielding the kiddies' eyes.

The most amusing thing to me is my dad. You should hear Mister Republican All His Life talking about "those complete morons" flailing about the speech.

Has the very act of hearing different ideas become so toxic to our thinking?
I think at a glance thought history, it's actually become better. ;_; Which is kind of depressing.

It probably has. Why does it seem so much worse lately?

Personally? I think it's because Obama actually got elected.

Maybe that's it? I'm not sure. I still want to blame the news media for at least part of it.

Oh the media totally plays a part. News isn't really news. There has always been a problem with yellow journalism and misdirection. It's just gotten really worse in the past decade. And there are few journalists out there who are completely after the truth who get air time.

But it's getting worse because we've got a black man as the president. A black man with a Muslim name. This is striking a blow against the status quoe and it's scaring people.

That's just such a foreign concept to me, that I honestly can't get my head around it.

whitehouse.gov, bb!

Well, yes. Racism isn't quite logical. I'd say it mostly comes down to basic economics. People don't want to lose power. When someone like Obama challenges them, people in power do what they can to manipulate people. And I'm not saying people are stupid or shallow or anything, there are many reasons why people are manipulated.

Seriously? This has nothing to do with Obama being black or having a Muslim name, unless you're some kind of racist kook. He could be as pasty white as an englishman and I would still have the same problems with his policies. The problem in this case was that before the speech text was released, the supplemental materials were released, and they made some people nervous because there were things like, "how can you help the President achieve his goals?" Since no one knew what kind of goals he was going to be talking about, people assumed that they would be political.

And I can't really blame them. His administration has spent the summer calling people who disagree with them terrorists and Nazis. That sort of thing tends to make people defensive and suspicious, especially when they already recognize public schools as being a place where kids are being taught to think certain ways about certain topics.

people in power do what they can to manipulate people

People in power like... parents? I'm confused.

But even after they released the info, the frothing continued. And I still say that parents need to set the example of holding up their ideas and values, being able to explain them to their children as compared to others, as opposed to thinking their kids are going to be brainwashed at every turn. Kids are smarter than people give them credit for.

Hahah I should have worded that more clearly.

People in power are, for the most part, white men. We've had two hundred years in the U.S. where that power - and power I mean social and economic power - remained mostly unchallenged.

When we've had challenges to that power - after the civil war, in the 20s, during the Civil Rights movement, people in power used domestic terrorism and such to attempt to scare people into submission (see: KKK).

Obama's election is a major major step in the road to finally getting to racial equality. But see the people in power have a vested interest in you know NOT fixing the racism. Racism, of course, has strong links to classism. Fighting for racial justice quite often has the potential to help poorer white people as well.

I think that things like cable news are the next generation of a type of terrorism to scare people into submission.

But even after they released the info, the frothing continued.

That hasn't been my experience. Heck, even Rush Limbaugh said it was a decent speech (I think... I was still half asleep when my alarm went off this morning)

And I still say that parents need to set the example of holding up their ideas and values, being able to explain them to their children as compared to others, as opposed to thinking their kids are going to be brainwashed at every turn.

Hon, there's a disturbingly large percentage of parents out there who can't be bothered to make sure their kid does their homework and eats breakfast every morning.

Kids are smarter than people give them credit for.

Some of them are, yes.

I think that things like cable news are the next generation of a type of terrorism to scare people into submission.

...

Allllrighty then.

Hon, there's a disturbingly large percentage of parents out there who can't be bothered to make sure their kid does their homework and eats breakfast every morning.

That's just sad.

I will take your 'sad' and raise you a 'depressing as hell'.

And I speak as one who has been in the trenches of the urban low-SES public school.

You want to argue against it? Terrorism isn't just killing people. A lot of it is much more subtle and pervasive. If we demonize people who have different ideas (CNN, FOX and MSNBC are all guilty of this) and spread hate it does lead us down a dangerous road.

We've already seen hints of it with the murder of Dr. Tiller. I don't think it's unreasonable to think it's going to get worse. Obama winning was a strong symbolic blow to white supremacy. The economy isn't looking too hot. We're in the middle of two (very long) wars. I'm not saying something completely horrible will happen, but I think suspicion isn't unwise.

Uh, yeah, cable news killed Tiller. Nuff said.

And overall, if you're comfortable with your life, you don't want anything to change. It's easy to stick with the status quo, and it doesn't much matter if change would be better or worse.

I think that things like cable news are the next generation of a type of terrorism to scare people into submission.

I don't think I'd go so far as to use the word "terrorism," (which has its own connotations) but they do love to deal in fear. It's almost as if the story isn't frightning, then it isn't a story.

That's a horrible cycle to be stuck in.

That's not what I said.

I'm saying that it is using fear tactics to motive people to doing horrible things. Cable news is not, without a doubt, the only thing that is hyping up the fear (I listed several of them), but it is an element. An important one,

Most definitely.

And while the best way out is through education, a lot of these kids don't see it. Neither do their families. They're going to be star football players or American Idols and school is just an annoyance that they have to sit through (or not) before their real lives can start. They don't see the road leading through elem, jr high, high school... on to colleges and/or productive careers. Everyone wants the easy way out.

Yeah, pretty much. And, to be fair to a lot of people, sometimes people who push for progressive ideas are kinda jerky. Liberals have a strong element of classism, for instance.

I could go with scare tactics. Terrorism, as a word, has changed a lot in the past nine years.

Haha another element in news to keep in mind: it's out to sell money. Fear and panic sell more than an objective look at what's really going on.

Unhuh.

Is that all you have to say? This discussion is pretty one sided. I'm lying out why I think the way I do, and you're completely dismissing everything I have to say. It's pretty disrespectful. If all you have to say is 'Unhuh', then I'll bow out of this conversation that you started.

Sorry, but I am kind of dismissing what you have to say. As in, it's so bizarre that I don't even know what's to discuss. You have every right to say it, of course, but I'm trying not to turn mich's lj into anything icky :)

With respect to

mrv3000 I will leave this conversation where it's at.

Yeah, I think that's probably wise :)

I hope that every child that was forced to stay home today or who attended a school that refused to show our president's speech goes on to YouTube and makes up their own mind on the content. And I hope they listen to him and are as inspired by what he said as I was.

I can't decide if it's fear or laziness (you mean you have to actually talk to your kids about things?) on the part of the parent when they do that. Maybe both.

I think it's laziness justified by fear. That's been my personal experience. It's easier to fear than it is to reason.

Found it! :D

I'm so disgusted with the whole mess.

I want to laugh but it's really not funny.

I'm glad you commented on this. I was going to write a journal entry about how I got a call from my daughter's school "warning" me that they were going to show Obama's speech to the kids. This way, if I wanted my child to be protected from the outside world, I could write a note telling them not to let her take part.

I found it ridiculous.

Would be nice, wouldn't it?

*nods* Exactly. It's all very silly until you realize that this generation of closed-minded individuals is raising the next generation of closed-minded individuals.

Yeesh. You'd think they wanted to show an R-rated movie or something.

Very well said. I think every president should take time out to address our children. And we, as parents, need to teach our kids to think, not just parrot back what they hear us say. That can't happen if they are never exposed to anything but our point of view on things.

*nod nod nod*

My kids school didn't show it. I found that out after I got home from work yesterday and asked my daughter what she thought of it. So I am going print it out for them to read. (I'd like to say I'm surprised by it not being shown, but I'm really not considering where I live.) I'm not a fan of a lot of our president's political ideas, but I am willing to give him my full support when I see him doing something I do agree with.

Now that's the right way to go about it! Brava!

It's a bubblewrap mentality. There are some that are just so scared to death about their children being exposed to ANYTHING that could possibly be negative or contradictory, that they would rather them not be exposed to anything at all. Try as I might, I can NOT get into that mindset, as it just seems so illogical to me, just as you describe. It amazes me that the schools even had the OPTION to deny the showing of this speech. I mean, HE IS OUR PRESIDENT!! Hell, I remember spending HOURS in school watch the damn OJ trial. And now some kids can't even see a speech prepared by our President especially for them. It's truly a scary thing.

Apparently, logic has no place here. *sigh*

Shoot, I remember our Civics class requiring everyone to go listen to political speeches. (It was an election year.) Not "I'm going to talk to school children now" speeches either. We took field trips to where candidates were talking.

Seriously! I remember us doing a mock election the year that Bush Sr. was running against Clinton, and everyone in class had to read up on the debates, and topics, and everything. And we watched what footage we could in class. Far cry from this whole thing...

Threaded | Top-Level Comments Only