I'm posty today!

[mrv3000]

So someone pointed me to one of those fannish "secrets" this weekend. (Don't remember if it was on the main site or the Who site.) Basically it boiled down to the person hoping that all the Doctor/Rose fans who say they're leaving actually stay and watch S5. Because of the schadenfreude.

This had me blinking a lot. Maybe I don't run in the right D/R circles, but no one I've seen cares a lick about Doctor/Rose in S5. At best it'll be ignored on the new show, and at worst the Doctor will talk about that chav whore he used to run around with, and then proceed to shag the universe.

And...I sort of don't even care if it's the latter. Let Eleven be the slutboi alien tease half of fandom wants him to be. *shrugs* It makes no difference to my ship. Like, seriously.

I'm not sure why the original secret maker would think that D/R shippers would be emotionally invested in S5 one way or another. We've all either headed off to the altverse, or have said fairwell to the ship. So while there will probably be plenty of D/R shippers who watch S5, I doubt there will be a lot of hand-wringing in the D/R sense when Eleven snogs Amy/River/guest-of-the-week. It really doesn't mess with D/R. *pats the altverse*

Comments

[misssara11.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I saw that too and thought to myself, "Do they not know what the word means?"

Because, as you said, they would get joy out our misery. Why would we be miserable? We have a whole new playground that can't be touched or we don't care anymore. I haven't seen anyone who's said they are "quitting" the show.

The comments on said post confused me even more. But that could be because I'm sick.

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

I didn't even read the comments about it but... Yeah. I just don't get why they think we'd be miserable with S5. I'll watch it or wont' watch it based on its own merits, but whatever they do on it it won't make a difference to D/R.

[http://users.livejournal.com/_thirty2flavors/]

I didn't actually see that secret/post, but could they be talking about it in less of a shippy sense? I've seen a lot of Doctor/Rose shippers already disowning season 5, so maybe they just think it'd be funny for those people to stick around only to complain about how much they hate the show -- not for shippy reasons, but because of [blah blah insert other reason here].

Maybe they're just associating the pre-emptive s5 flounce with Doctor/Rose shippers despite the fact that the pre-emptive s5 flounce might not actually be driven by shippy motivations.

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

Maybe that's it? But then the schadenfreude doesn't make a lot of sense. Do they want these people to stay and like it? But...that kind of rules out the schadenfreude. Do they want them to stay and not like it? But if they already said they weren't watching, why would they watch something they hate?

[larissa-j.livejournal.com]

I think these are probably the same people who can't see Moffat's sexism fail and are convinced we're making it up because we're D/R shippers.

He never really said any of those offensive things, you know! It's all in our heads!

*rolls eyes*

[larissa-j.livejournal.com]

Sounds like bitter Moffat fan is bitter. Also, logic fail!

I'm not sure why the original secret maker would think that D/R shippers would be emotionally invested in S5 one way or another

Because they're an idiot? I dunno, I guess it's the same people who hated RTD but were too stupid to stop watching the show? So, you know, this somehow makes sense to them. I know that I often waste my time watching shows I have no interest in. *rolls eyes*

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

It really makes no sense to me, other than this fandom loves to mock D/R shippers.

[principia-coh.livejournal.com]

Actually, as a D/R and RTD fan I've been deriving a substantial amount of schadenfreude from watching the Moffat fans who have been howling for him to take over the show since, well, New Who. started, scrambling to justify how he's spent all this time talking about How Different Things Will Be When He's In Charge when...

Older Doctor? Nope.

Male companion? Nope.

Companion who isn't from current-day Earth? Nope.

Oodles of adventures in super-spacey settings? Nope.

A completely different TARDIS? Nope.

Completely different use of music? Nope.

I guess they'll take their pleasure whereever they think they can get it, because it certainly doesn't look like their golden boy is going to deliver on their expectations.

I am planning on at least screening the first few eps for the sake of giving the show as a whole a fair shot, but I am not hopeful.

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

I hadn't heard about the settings one. Are a lot of them going to be Earth-based?

And I waver on watching. I'm sure by the time it rolls around I'll take a look, but right now I have no interest in it. Honestly, I'm more excited at the thought of Torchwood S4 and the rumors that have come out for that.

[magali29.livejournal.com]

I really don't care. I mean, Eleven is a new man. I haven't been a fan for the last 40 years so I haven't been brainwashed by the "the doctor is always the same man even if 1 and 10 are as similar as the Pope and Vladimir Poutine". For me, 10 is dead, he lived his life, loved Rose, didn't want to die but he couldn't help dying and a new man took his place.

Works so well for me this way. Eleven is the Doctor, but he isn't 9 or 10. He just has their memories.

So whoever the 11th doctor snogs, for me, it's not destroying Nine/Ten/Rose, because those were (and still are, in TEn II), the ones who loved and still love Rose.

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

Beyond incarnations, I'm really thinking of this as a whole new show. It's like going from old Who to new Who.

And I love that RTD set up the altverse. A lot. :D

[unfolded73.livejournal.com]

He can be a slutboi alien tease or fall passionately in love with someone else - either is fine with me at this point. If there are D/R shippers who truly want the Doctor to pine away for Rose for the rest of his regenerations ... well, that just seems needlessly cruel to the character, honestly.

[principia-coh.livejournal.com]

I think it's not unrealistic to expect that he might continue to miss her moving forward (unless his personality changes drastically), but I don't think it would ever be the same as it was when he was effectively a version of himself that was entirely devoted to being with Rose and for Rose.

[goodtoast.livejournal.com]

As part of my post David Tennant healing, I've been listening to a LOT of DW podcasts, and every single one I've listened to has been nothing but happy that Rose has her own universe that Stephen Moffat can't touch, which just shows me even more that this anti-Rose crusade is the crazy crazy exception.

Ugh, I just don't get why someone would exert so much energy on a fictional character. These people do know Rose isn't real, right?

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

I'm not familiar with the podcasts. Who are they done by?

But yeah. It always surprises me how much people cling to the Rose hate. I mean, when it turns up just about every time on unrelated Torchwood posts, that's...way more obsessed than I'll ever be.

[magali29.livejournal.com]

Knowing Moffat's writing style, there's a chance that he'll James Bondify the Doctor and not write him as having a consistent love interest, but on the contrary, having flings with the girl of the week. Like that, the geeks are happy (the doctor isn't mooning over the same girl, episode after episode), and he is the badass who can get all the girls, seduce them and then dump them once the episode is over, going back to saving the world and traveling.

And I agree with you, mrv3000, Torchwood is much more appealing to me right now. I can't help until it comes back. I started in this fandom thanks to Torchwood. I was hooked on Jack, was told that he was the Doctor's companion, tracked down the episodes and fell for the Doctor and Rose. But I felt that DW was like... a crack show. If it hadn't been for Eccleston, Tennant, Piper and the D/R relationship, I wouldn't have watched the show beyond the Jack episodes.

So without them, well, it's not really my kind of show. I prefer more serious sci-fi programs, or sitcoms, to be honest.

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

Yeah, based on the episodes SM's already done and how he's written the character of the Doctor in them, I wouldn't be surprised if this is the way it goes down.

And how interesting to come in the opposite way! Most people I know started with DW and then watched Torchwood.

[magali29.livejournal.com]

Well, I'm french and Doctor Who here is a big failure. It airs on the smallest of the cable networks, at impossible hours (like 6 am in the mornings), and for the DVD, only the first three seasons are available because the sales were just bad,the 4th season was never released. I doubt the 5th season, or series 1, will air. And of course, only New Who is airing on that small network, old who never aired.

Now Torchwood is a much bigger show. It airs on at least 3 different cable networks, there are lots of reruns and it has very good critics in the medias so that's why I started with Torchwood.


About shippers, I bet you that the geeks will find new fans to rant about, like the Eleven/Amy or Eleven/River fans. I'm just happy that there's the alternate verse. The way I see it, the universe gave the 10th doctor his reward, knowing that he was going to die, by spliting him up.

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

It's funny - Torchwood is much bigger in the U.S. as well. :D I can always find Torchwood DVDs when I walk into Target, but have never seen Doctor Who DVDs.

And that's one hell of a reward. :)

[magali29.livejournal.com]

Well, despite insulting the humans, the Doctor ALWAYS comes back to them and to Earth. For me, it was more than fascination, he had human envy. The human doctor went quickly from "it's disgusting", from "I can grow old with you", without going into a rant about it. Maybe he saw this new life as his reward.

Yeah, it's funny that Torchwood seems to be bigger in foreign countries. I wonder why. Yes, it's more adult but is that the reason for its success when Doctor Who remains an obscure show (at least in my country).

[magali29.livejournal.com]

It's really too bad that some hate Ten II. He is all that's remaining of Ten, now that Ten is dead. Although I have found a few fics, post ToET II, where Ten's spirit joined Ten II in the alternate verse. So maybe some anti-Ten II fans are slowly accepting Ten II, even this way?

And to be honest, I knew about the concept of DW so I never wanted to ship D/R. It was only when I saw JE and Rose staying with Ten II, with no angst over "Oh, you'll wither and die while I'll stay young and live almost forever, moving on", that I let myself ship the doctor and Rose. I ship Nine/Rose, Ten/Rose and Ten II/Rose. But I view the first two relationships as Rose having relationships with men who unfortunately died. And Rose found happiness with Ten II, who is, maybe 75% Ten, and 25% Nine. The best of the best.

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

Although I have found a few fics, post ToET II, where Ten's spirit joined Ten II in the alternate verse.

*SNIFFS*

*pats Rose and Ten II*

[makingmywayhome.livejournal.com]

So, these people have obviously never seen Journey's End, or at least have never considered the implications for a Ten/Rose shipper?

Whatever, that's ridiculous! Most T/R shippers I know are planning on leaving the show for Moffatt-related reasons. I haven't even watched End of Time yet, but I'll give Eleven and...his new companion a shot before I inevitably flounce the show.

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

I...don't know? I'm not sure what's going on in that OP's mind other than "I WANT TO MOCK PEOPLE."

[sunnytyler001.livejournal.com]

*agrees*
However, if I'm honest, I would feel quite bad for Rose if Eleven ever spoke about her as "that chav whore he used to run around with"...
But yeah, as nostalgic as we can be, our ship was exiled to Pete's world, veryyyyy far and safe from the Evil!wizard Moffat! Mwahahaha! :D And that's very well that way. I really can't wait for the virtual series with Ten 2 & Rose.... It's gonna be fantastic!!!! :D :D :D
But you know what I'd really want? David & Billie guest starring on Torchwood as Ten 2 & Rose. THAT would make my day...

[magali29.livejournal.com]

Sunnytyler - I would love to have Ten 2 and Rose popping up on Torchwood. And let's face it, with RTD running Torchwood, it's more likely than them being in Moffat's Who.

RTD, Barrowman and Tennant get along very well so it's not that far fetched. And Billie Piper gets along with Tennant so once again, not that far fetched to have her and Tennant showing up for an episode. Not this season but maybe the next?

Someone should write a fic where Ten II and Rose show up in their baby Tardis, and with them having the ability to travel between universes. I could see them telling Jack about the different universes they have visisted.

After all, who says that there aren't advanced species in Pete's world? They could be as advanced as the Time Lord and be able to travel through universes!

[magali29.livejournal.com]

I have no problems leaving a show for creative divergence with the show runner. I did it with Smallville after season 4 and I never looked back. Same with Sliders. I gave the show a chance in the third season, but the new season was cringe worthy so I quit. I gave two chances to Earth final conflict but I finally gave up somewhere in the middle of season4. So it won't be a problem to move on from DW, for me.

It's not like there aren't tons of shows to watch.

But yeah, apart from the fact that MS just doesn't do it for me, my reasons for not being that interested in the new series are Moffat related.


And god, we have Ten, the most handsome and popular doctor, still alive, and WITH ROSE!!! That's the greatest gift that RTD could have given us and believe me, I more than appreciate it.

If those geek fans want to rant at us, let them. Once the new series start, they'll have other things to rant about. The fact that The Moff isn't the god or the savior they had taking him for (mostly because they put him and his episodes on a pedestal, he can only fall from it now!) and also the new Eleven/Amy shippers that will just get on their nerves.

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

Yes, this. I don't feel like I need to get my fix from this show anymore. And for my ship fix, I've got the altverse which is full of fic.

And somehow I have the feeling that any faults with the new series will still be Rose's fault. :D

[rattus-aerius.livejournal.com]

So if you leave you're a jackass, but if you stay and complain you're a jackass?

I'M SO CONFUSED!

If I don't watch it's because I'm too lazy to download the episodes. ;)

Also, Cloen pwns all! XD

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

Damned if you do, damned if don't. :D

[jedi_of_urth]

I may be one of the last hold outs and still not be satisfied by JE, but you know what I do accept? That it's the show's way of concluding the Doctor/Rose love story. Like it or not, that's what it was. And it's not even that I don;t like the implications, those I like, I just still hate the way it played out in the episode.

The thing is, the further the show gets away from that love story, the less it has in common with the show I fell in love with and the more Moffat is likely to ignore or piss on that love story the more it makes his Who look like a fraud in my eyes. And I don't need to watch the fraud show, even to comment on how much of a fraud it is.

(wow, bitter much Jedi? Apparently this headache is making me bitchy)

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

*patpatpat*

But even with you, you just don't feel the need to continue on with the show. I think that the OP might be disappointed with D/R shippers.

[shaela]

I’m confused. Doesn’t “schadenfreude” mean that you’re happy when someone else is miserable? I don’t think I’d be miserable if I watched the fifth season of Doctor Who. Bored out of my mind, yes. Miserable, no.

(And unlike most Doctor/Rose shippers, I do ship Eleven/Rose. But I don’t see Moffat’s version of Eleven as a threat to that, because I see everything after season one as a weird AU.)

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

I’m confused. Doesn’t “schadenfreude” mean that you’re happy when someone else is miserable? I don’t think I’d be miserable if I watched the fifth season of Doctor Who. Bored out of my mind, yes. Miserable, no.

Yeah, I think they want D/R shippers to be miserable when watching. Or possibly people who said they wouldn't be watching....as long as they're also D/R shippers or something.

(And unlike most Doctor/Rose shippers, I do ship Eleven/Rose. But I don’t see Moffat’s version of Eleven as a threat to that, because I see everything after season one as a weird AU.)

I know you do. :) Question about your whole universe there - did Nine regenerate or did he stay on?

[intrikate88.livejournal.com]

Right? I saw that and was like, okay, that novel of a storyline just ended and we're in for the next book of the series now, whether D/R shippers are watching or not, soooo.... it's just not relevant.

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

Exactly.

[greenpear.livejournal.com]

I think some people need to get a grip. Paraphrase the words of the comicbook artist, John Bryne when asked about something he did in one of his stories, he looked at the kid and said, "Listen kid - ComicBook!".

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

XD That's great!

[shinkonokokoro.livejournal.com]

Haha, it's true, because 11 is pretty much an entirely different person. I'm a huge D/R fan and this season and the ones without Rose haven't really affected anything. I'm still going to watch the show, because it's brilliant.

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

Yeah, it's just almost...not related to each other.

[magali29.livejournal.com]

Not related to each other, quite right, too. To be honest, I don't think I would ever be able to ship Eleven/Rose. Maybe if he was played by someone else than MS? Because I just don't find the guy attractive, far from it. He just... doesn't do it for me. I much prefer to picture Rose with Nine or Ten, or Ten II.

Eleven, for me, is just a new man who inherited the title of "doctor". I see Ten II as the real Ten legacy.

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

Well, for me I don't think I could ship Eleven/Rose just because of how things turned out in JE. Ten II and Eleven used to be the same man, but aren't the same man anymore. Ten II and Rose now have had a relationship for going on two years now that doesn't involve the other Doctor.