(no subject)

[mrv3000]

I've been pondering the POV-related character development fault of the HP books. A lot of characters have a lot of potential, but you don't see it past Harry's tunnel vision mode.

I have to say, though, that looking at purely what the books did give (as opposed to, say, being comfortable with personal canon by inserting between the lines), I'm thinking Ginny got a bum rap from fandom. Don't get me wrong, she's not a deeply developed character. However, I'd say she got just as much character development as Neville and Draco. Both of those characters greatly benefit from the movies rounding them out. Character-based details about them just...really aren't in the books. There are some character moments for them, but I'd say there are just as many of those same kind of moments for Ginny.

I still don't give a rodent's rear about shipping anyone, so this isn't about me trying to wave a Harry/Ginny flag or anything. I don't really care about that. Just pondering the characters, and fairly confused as to why there's so much Ginny hate. It can't be all due to lack of character development since that describes many of the characters in the HP books. (Oh, and don't even haul out "Mary Sue" with me. 1) That term no longer has any meaning, and 2) Harry himself is 100 times the "Mary Sue" that Ginny will ever be. Mwah.)

Comments

[shinyopals.livejournal.com]

KALI, WHERE'S THE GIF OF DONNA EATING GRAPES FROM THE UNICORN AND THE WASP?

POPCORN GIFS ALSO APPLY, OF COURSE.

[http://users.livejournal.com/_thirty2flavors/]

[shinyopals.livejournal.com]

TY, BB. I knew you'd be there for me.

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

:D

I'm not sure how Ginny could possibly get the Mary Sue label when Harry Freeking Potter is standing there. XD (Not that I think HP is a Mary Sue/Stu, but come on.)

[shinyopals.livejournal.com]

Same way Rose (or any companion... AMY IS ALSO NOT A MARY SUE AND I DON'T EVEN CARE FOR HER) can while standing next to the Doctor: BUTTHURT SHIPPING AHOY.

In other news: get that word out of fandom, people.

[shinyopals.livejournal.com]

But to srsly consider your post like the srs person that I am, I have no clue. Ginny is not, like, my favourite character ever and nor was the H/G romance ever my OMG OTP FOREVER, but she just seems like a pretty normal girl. She's smart and naturally good at school work but incredibly awkward around the bloke she fancies for a while.

I generally approve of her and Neville (and Luna) hanging around at Hogwarts during Harry-Ron-and-Hermione-go-camping and causing trouble, too.

[ginamak.livejournal.com]

[http://users.livejournal.com/_thirty2flavors/]

lol I guarantee you the answer to why there's so much Ginny hate is shipping related. She either ruined a ship, or people do not think Harry/Ginny was done well enough and because she has boobs for some reason she is the one who bears the brunt of that. A lot of people were also very displeased that she DATED OTHER BOYS FOR FUN because that means she is a huge slut obviously. And sluts are terrible.

I'm sure there are some people who just find her rude or something, for the same reason people might not like Fred or George, but the reason she is the fandom pariah is 100% because of shipping.

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

Poor Ginny. *pats her*

[shinyopals.livejournal.com]

NOT DATING OTHER MEN. HOW DARE SHE. RON DIDN'T APPROVE, AFTER ALL, AND CLEARLY HIS THOUGHTS ON HIS SISTER'S RELATIONSHIPS ARE GOOD AND RIGHT.

*Pats Ron*

[arabian.livejournal.com]

I'm thinking Ginny got a bum rap from fandom. Don't get me wrong, she's not a deeply developed character. However, I'd say she got just as much character development as Neville and Draco.

That right there is the problem for me though. Ginny is Harry's love interest, Harry Potter, the Boy Who Lived!, the title character, and yet she has about as much character development as Neville (the boy who could have been the boy who lived, but wasn't) and Draco, the 'need a douche/insert character,' guy.

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

I think I would have been more disappointed if the story was supposed to center around the romantic relationships, but I think they were always meant as more supplemental rather than an epic love story.

[butterfly.livejournal.com]

I kinda like the Early Ginny. And then the Later Ginny was just like Fred and George, basically, and I disliked them, so... it kinda follows that I disliked her. But my favorite Weasley is Percy so... yeah. I'm not really a Weasley Person in general.

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

:D You've got me curious now, because I'd never expect anyone to say that Percy was their favorite Weasley! What did you like about him?

[fiona-conn.livejournal.com]

I guess anybody calling Ginny a Mary Sue didn't read CoS too closely. Or that moment in OoTP when she calls out Harry on his moping because he thinks he's possessed -- and she actually HAS been possessed before and knows what it's like. Her brothers even acknowledge her as a force to be reckoned with (the bat bogey hex).

Still, there's some fanfic that shows CoS through her eyes (http://www.sugarquill.net/read.php?storyid=734&chapno=1) and also some that deals with PoA through her eyes, chronicling her recovery from the events of the previous year: (http://www.sugarquill.net/read.php?storyid=2391&chapno=1 , and this one shot: http://www.sugarquill.net/read.php?storyid=2109&chapno=1 ).

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

Thanks! I'm not really looking to get into fic, but the impression I get in that whole Mary Sue thing is that Ginny was too awesome for her own good. *FLAILS WILDLY IN HARRY'S DIRECTION*

[catyuy.livejournal.com]

Or that moment in OoTP when she calls out Harry on his moping because he thinks he's possessed -- and she actually HAS been possessed before and knows what it's like
I hate the fact that we didn't get this scene in the movie.

[tsukara.livejournal.com]

Well, yeah, you're right, Ginny is just abuot as developed as characters like Neville and Draco are. The difference is... neither Draco nor Neville ends up happily ever after raising millions of babies with the main character of the series, so it seems like a bit of an oversight. Like, we've barely seen this character for a few books (through Harry's tunnel vision, true) and then she's supposed to become the most important woman in his life all of a sudden? Uhhhh...

But that aside, I think she is pretty awesome (and not a Sue, I agree). I think she's a normal, kick-ass girl. I just don't understand, and never did, how she became so suddenly important when most of her character development happened totally away from the focus of the series. /shrug

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

I guess I don't think of who Harry ends up marrying as being that important. Important to Harry, sure, but not really important to the overall series.

re: lack of character dev. in HP

[acciochocolate.livejournal.com]

And this is one of the many reasons for fanfic. :) Many writers just don't do enough in the way of character development, it's all about one or two characters, and the rest are ciphers.

There's some lovely HP fic out there. Sometimes, heretical as it may seem, I would rather read good fic, pro or fan, than read the original books or watch the original TV show or film.

In the end, when it got to be that there was too much being published in the genres of SF and fantasy, way back when, I had to pick one genre to kind of keep up with. (Money, ya know, and time, too.) I went with fantasy, partly because there was more character development in fantasy. Not always, of course. Lois McMasters Bujold's Miles series is SF all the way and has amazing, compelling characters that draw me in every time.

And, I don't dislike Ginny. I just thought that Harry and Hermione would have suited better, but that's just moi. :)

Re: re: lack of character dev. in HP

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

Well, it gets to a point where you have to go outside of canon if you want anything decent about secondary characters. And given that HP is probably about the biggest fandom around, I'm betting great character fic is out there that would satisfy more than the original.

[maypanic.livejournal.com]

Icon squee!

That is all. Haven't watched or read any HP so I am devoid of opinion.

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

PLOCK!!! XD XD

(I hope the next book is good. January!!)

[shaela]

Well, I fell in love with Ginny in the first four books, and some of the changes JKR made to her in the later ones didn’t make sense to me. (Just off the top of my head, a tomboy who kept a diary? Really?) I’d been expecting Ginny to be… well, more like what Luna turned out to be: someone quiet and steady that Harry could talk to when he couldn’t talk to anyone else. But calling her a Mary Sue makes no sense to me. If anything, her role in the story was too small, not too big.

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

And if you don't like a character, you don't like a character. (Or fall out of love with a character.) Not much you can do about that. :)

What I found a bit head-scratching was (and this is based on my very limited peek at fandom) that Ginny got bashed for lack of character development, while Neville and Draco with the same amount of characterization were/are darlings. Shenanigans!