mrv3000 | The Age of Steel

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doctor who

The Age of Steel

I'm Michelle. I'm a shipper. This is what I do: I flail madly at each new episode and then make up subtext to suit me. WHEEEE!!

Doctor/Rose various points of bullshit after watching The Age of Steel:

I've seen over and over again from people about how Ten doesn't love Rose - he's reduced her to "friend" status. I boggle. Yeah, the dynamics between Nine/Rose and Ten/Rose are vastly different and I've got a couple of thoughts on this.

Relationships change and mature. The clingy anxiety Nine constantly had over the thought of Rose leaving him, while additionally trying to fight off whatever feelings he was having for her, could not have lasted. (Well, it could have, but it would have been downright icky.) That's pretty much a wretched state to be in - filled with insecurity and fears. Kinda lousy for an actual relationship. But in TPotW he finally figured out that she really did love him when she quite literally ripped open time and space to get back to him. Regenerated Ten knows this now. He's not afraid of her walking out on him anymore and is all around more comfortable with his actual emotions. He isn't doing the pining thing Nine did because he doesn't need to.
They *are* ramping up the "best friend" aspect of them and I for one am glad. I mean, here you have two people who pretty much spend 24/7 with each other...well, Rose has to sleep and the Doctor probably goes off and plays Tetris for 8 hours...but you can tell they love hanging out with each other beyond any romantic aspect. And since an actual relationship involves *way* more than hearts and flowers, you'd kinda want this.

And speaking of "beyond hearts and flowers," the last couple of eps have shown them both sticking around during the bad times, and *that* a relationship makes. The Doctor didn't kick Rose to the curb when she did her batshit "he's my DAD!" thing (repeatedly) even though he was frustrated as hell. And Rose didn't leave after it seemed like the Doctor left her for another woman on top of her realization that he'll have many other people in his life.

I LOVE this quote from Scrubs and I've posted it before, but since it totally relates, I'm gonna post it again. It's just so cool.

Relationships don't work they way they do on television and in the movies. Will they? Won't they? And then they finally do, and they're happy forever. Gimme a break. Nine out of ten of them end because they weren't right for each other to begin with, and half of the ones who get married get divorced anyway, and I'm telling you right now, through all this stuff I have not become a cynic. I haven't. Yes, I do happen to believe that love is mainly about pushing chocolate covered candies and, y'know, in some cultures, a chicken. You can call me a sucker, I don't care, because I do believe in it. Bottom line: it's couples who are truly right for each other wade through the same crap as everybody else, but the big difference is they don't let it take them down. One of those two people will stand up and fight for that relationship every time.

Unrelated: if you're ever in the mood for a bit of self-punishment, try explaining the Time War to

elismor. *bangs head*

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Dude.

I have no problem with the Time War as a concept.

I have a problem with the resolution that was thrown at me in The Parting of the Ways.

Plus, you are on crack.

It's not *my* resolution! Maybe you need to be drunk to understand...

ON. CRACK.

Crack, I say.

And not space crack, eefer. Just regular old Earf crack, you're on.

Is it that whole outside of time thing?

But...why is it so hard to understand? OBVIOUSLY it's not like real science or anything. Geek.

Heh. I just got that joke.

Er, I don't watch Doctor Who (I know, I know) but that quote from Scrubs is fan-frickin'-tastic. Huh.

Yeah, LOVE that quote. LOVE.

You know, I really do want to see this show, if for no other reason than the Doctor/Rose relationship.

And yes, I'm a shameless shipper. I like my ships...well, I love my ships. And Doctor/Rose sounds ever so delightful and I'm deprived because I hate dropping in to the middle of shows like this.

They really are so horribly cute. And despite my "clingy" comments about Nine above, the Doctor's previous incarnation was really sweet and goofy about Rose and Rose totally adored him.

Ugh, I just wish they'd put them out on DVD. Supposedly I'm getting a TiVo soon so theoretically I could just TiVo a couple of episodes and give it whirl. I just feel like I'm missing out on something by not seeing Rose/Doc from the beginning.

Of course, I should probably not watch, with my ship killing history. ;) Lord knows, I wouldn't want to kill Doctor/Rose and have hundreds or thousands of angry fans chasing me down.

Ugh, I just wish they'd put them out on DVD. Supposedly I'm getting a TiVo soon so theoretically I could just TiVo a couple of episodes and give it whirl. I just feel like I'm missing out on something by not seeing Rose/Doc from the beginning.

Well, they're now right up to the last two eps on SciFi, so it probably wouldn't be good to come in for those. Although, I suppose you could. But the DVDs for S1 will be out July 4.

Of course, I should probably not watch, with my ship killing history. ;) Lord knows, I wouldn't want to kill Doctor/Rose and have hundreds or thousands of angry fans chasing me down.

That bad, eh?

But the DVDs for S1 will be out July 4.

Gom! I didn't even know they were going to put DVDs out in the US! Oh, I am definitely Netflixing those. Definitely.

That bad, eh?

This sweeps I've killed 4 or so. ;) Well, I suppose it's not me single-handedly, since my friend Tess is also masterful at it.

Gom! I didn't even know they were going to put DVDs out in the US! Oh, I am definitely Netflixing those. Definitely.

Yup!

This sweeps I've killed 4 or so. ;) Well, I suppose it's not me single-handedly, since my friend Tess is also masterful at it.

Ha! Whoops!

Now you've seen the ep I can tell you, remember a couple weeks back when I was spoilt by the BBC news site?

Mickey leaving was it. :(

Ohhhhhhh. That spoiler. :( I had spoiled myself earlier on that one on purpose. But that was rather crappy of the BBC to do. Bah.

Thank you, thank you, and thank you. I've seen so much of the "10 thinks of her only as a friend now" argument, that I was beginning to doubt myself. But the most recent episode helped a lot in this regard, along with your points on how relationships change. Nine, much as I love him, was a tad clingy, which would probably have been bad in the long run.

Unrelated: if you're ever in the mood for a bit of self-punishment, try explaining the Time War to [info]elismor. *bangs head*

I'd hate to try to explain the Time War to anyone. I think I understand it, vaguely, in my own head, but as soon as I try to put it in some understandable format... whoosh. Things get all spinny.

Thank you, thank you, and thank you. I've seen so much of the "10 thinks of her only as a friend now" argument, that I was beginning to doubt myself.

I just...I honestly don't know where that's coming from. I mean, Tooth and Claw? Talk about handsey! God, everything they did in that ep screamed "intimate." Maybe people were just so traumatized by The Girl in the Fireplace? Bah. Try having your OTP go through two engagements to other people, married to another person in a future AU timeline, a girlfriend and almost abandoning your old life to shack up with a woman on another planet, and THEN we'll talk. :D

But the most recent episode helped a lot in this regard, along with your points on how relationships change.

I have a pet theory on the reason behind TGitF, beyond the fact that it gave excellent (and needed) character development to the Doctor. About how RTD *loves* Rose and didn't want fans to forever blame her for killing the asexuality and so got Moffat to whip something up. Now he can forever say "But the Doctor falling in love is CANON. Bitches." And then he cackles madly. ;)

Nine, much as I love him, was a tad clingy, which would probably have been bad in the long run.

If CE had stuck around, I *really* don't think the Doctor would have still been like that. I still think they'd be more in this area now.

I'd hate to try to explain the Time War to anyone. I think I understand it, vaguely, in my own head, but as soon as I try to put it in some understandable format... whoosh. Things get all spinny.

The problem was that we got into the whole Bad Wolf thing *and* the lone dalek thing all at the same time. It was...two hours of madness. :D

Heh. I just realized that one of my comments had nothing to do with one of the referenced comments. Ah well. imadork :D

What I love about this is you can take from it what you want.

He backs her corner, all the way. She supports him to the end.

And they accept each other for who they are. OK, so there may be a few spats along the way, but what relationship doesn't have its moments?

What I love about their love* is that it's natural. They have their big dramatic moments where it wouldn't be totally out of place if they started snogging the other's face off, but for the most part it's... there. You look at them and you see two people who are comfortable with the other, where it matters most they know each other inside out. She pulled apart time for him and he *died* for her. Last of the Time Lords and he gave one of his precious regenerations to save some girl from a London estate.

Mickey was right - it's always The Doctor and Rose Tyler.

* 'cause it's so there. How else was Tenth going to end that sentence in SR? "Imagine that happening to someone you..." What? See the Universe with? Gimme a break...

What I love about this is you can take from it what you want.

Yeah. :)

He backs her corner, all the way. She supports him to the end.

Yup, even when they have a very bad feeling about what's happening.

And they accept each other for who they are. OK, so there may be a few spats along the way, but what relationship doesn't have its moments?

Right.

What I love about their love* is that it's natural. They have their big dramatic moments where it wouldn't be totally out of place if they started snogging the other's face off, but for the most part it's... there. You look at them and you see two people who are comfortable with the other, where it matters most they know each other inside out. She pulled apart time for him and he *died* for her. Last of the Time Lords and he gave one of his precious regenerations to save some girl from a London estate.

Yup yup yup! *sniff* Dammit, now you're making me sniffly!

Mickey was right - it's always The Doctor and Rose Tyler.

I have a feeling I'll be shipping them long after Rose is gone and the Doctor's on his 12th incarnation. *pets them*

* 'cause it's so there. How else was Tenth going to end that sentence in SR? "Imagine that happening to someone you..." What? See the Universe with? Gimme a break...

Heh heh. Yeah. Completely. Poor emotionally stunted Doctor.

I love and adore you and want to totally have your babies (once it's scientifically possible of course!!)

I read this and it was like like big light bulb went off in my head. i was trying to figure out how and why the dynamic changed and you just hit it right on the head.

You are so right! Nine was clingy (oh and how I loved that!) but Ten now understands that Rose will not leave him. for anything. I imagine realising that would release a burden the Doctor didn't even know he was carrying.

and the Age of Steel. So didn't make me cry. At all. Not a single tear.

At. All.

At least there were no witnesses to verify that.

I love and adore you and want to totally have your babies (once it's scientifically possible of course!!)

*wiggles eyebrows*

I read this and it was like like big light bulb went off in my head. i was trying to figure out how and why the dynamic changed and you just hit it right on the head.

They're kinda in this really weird non-UST but yet non-RST area. *pets them*

You are so right! Nine was clingy (oh and how I loved that!)

He was adorable most the time. (although the watching Rose and Mickey on the monitor thing bordered on the "HEY! Stop that!" :D)

but Ten now understands that Rose will not leave him. for anything. I imagine realising that would release a burden the Doctor didn't even know he was carrying.

Yup.

and the Age of Steel. So didn't make me cry. At all. Not a single tear.

At. All.

At least there were no witnesses to verify that.

Oh man. So much sniffling on my part. Mickey was so wonderful and strong. He finally came into his own and stopped being the tin dog. *sniff* And Rose so completely cracked (BP - her voice! such good acting) with two important men leaving. WAH. And then the Doctor parking the TARDIS in Jackie's *living room* to get Rose to her mum. WAAAH.

oh no - I literally had tears running down my face - the whole end of it just made me sob - Billie was fantastic in it and Mickey was just awesome. I so knew something was going tohappen to him because they gave him back story but he really did come into his own and got Rose's respect and thr Doctors as well. *goes all sniffly again*

Damn - now I want to watch it again.

Word. :D

*pets them*

oh I completely agree! Just what I was thinking but I coulsn't put it into words! *rolls eyes* Anyway like you said if he didint love her he wouldnt have put up with her moaning about her dad. And he would'nt have given in to her "begging puppy dog" look. There's nohing wrong with behaving like best friends, it shows how natural and easy they are in each others company.

Anyway like you said if he didint love her he wouldnt have put up with her moaning about her dad.

That's the way I see it. I mean, normally I just can't see him putting up with that shit.

And he would'nt have given in to her "begging puppy dog" look. There's nohing wrong with behaving like best friends, it shows how natural and easy they are in each others company.

Yeah. :)

I so agree. This season is extremely shippy, just in a different way than before, and in a way they rarely show on TV. It feels natural to me, and yet not completely satisfying because I know beyond a shadow of a doubt (not in a "reading up on the latest spoilers" way, but as a matter of seeing the pattern) that there is not going to be a traditional happily ever after for these two. There won't be a Highlander-Immortal "happily until the mortal dies of old age" ever after, either. I believe the ship is heading to a bittersweet conclusion - and the real question is, will it be the bittersweet of regular dark chocolate or will it be the deep, almost tangy bitter-bittersweet of 80% cocoa, almost Klingon in its intensity, chocolate (which is seriously not to most people's taste, but I happen to love). It is gooooooooood in a way which is divorced from satisfying a craving for sugar-sweetness.

I guess I'm not too concerned with what might/will/could be in the future for this ship. I'm more focused on the present. If it ends, it ends. That's life (and death) for anyone - it's all just a car crash away, or so I'm told. All anyone can do is live in the now. And right now I'm just loving the love between these two. *squishes*

Oh yeah.

We aren't going to get a happily-ever-after, but this story IS enormous good fun NOW, and promises to be a helluva good ride no matter where it ends up. Which is the best we can ask for anything in life, eh?

Yup! :)

I absolutely love everything you said. There were definitely things that I loved about the Nine/Rose relationship, and which I miss, but I think you're right that it couldn't have continued that way. Also, I find the Ten/Rose relationship more interesting in that it's very complex and elusive. I can never quite put my finger on exactly what their relationship is, or where it's going to lead, but I'm completely hooked and can't stop reading/thinking about it.

And I looooved your use of the Scrubs quote :)

There were definitely things that I loved about the Nine/Rose relationship, and which I miss, but I think you're right that it couldn't have continued that way.

Yeah, I don't think we would have seen a continuation of that kind of a relationship even if CE had stayed.

Also, I find the Ten/Rose relationship more interesting in that it's very complex and elusive.

Totally. One thing I have loved about this show is that you can tell that TPTB are totally crafting this relationship, giving it tons of depth. I'm so not used to seeing that, especially from a sci-fi show.

I can never quite put my finger on exactly what their relationship is, or where it's going to lead, but I'm completely hooked and can't stop reading/thinking about it.

I know! Hee!

And I looooved your use of the Scrubs quote :)

It's my fav of the whole series. :)

Yeah, I don't think we would have seen a continuation of that kind of a relationship even if CE had stayed.

I loved the relationship in S1. It was so new and intense. But I'm also really loving the new relationship. It's very playful, and flirty, and energetic, and messy. It's almost as if they're best friends who are pretty much dating, but haven't admitted it yet, and are in complete denial over how much they want to get into each others pants.

A lot of the people on my flist gave up on the show after GitFP (incidentally, one of my favourite episodes), so it's nice to see I'm not the only one here in LJ land who's still loving it.

Totally. One thing I have loved about this show is that you can tell that TPTB are totally crafting this relationship, giving it tons of depth. I'm so not used to seeing that, especially from a sci-fi show.

Yeah, I absolutely agree. And I think that complexity is being mistaken for bad writing. Not that I don't have serious issues with some aspects of the writing this season, but not with the Ten/Rose relationship in general.

I envy your ability to pick a single favourite Scrubs quote. I'm not even going to think about attempting that.

It's almost as if they're best friends who are pretty much dating, but haven't admitted it yet, and are in complete denial over how much they want to get into each others pants.

Heh heh. That's a great way of putting it! :)

A lot of the people on my flist gave up on the show after GitFP

Oh really? That's too bad. You mean that they thought it killed Doctor/Rose? I guess I have too many OTP battle scars from my last ship pairing to be very phased by a one-episode third party storyline.

And I think that complexity is being mistaken for bad writing. Not that I don't have serious issues with some aspects of the writing this season, but not with the Ten/Rose relationship in general.

Yeah, totally. Every so often I see something that's a "dude, wow" moment. Even in TGitF - holy crap. If only all TV relationships could be that layered.

I envy your ability to pick a single favourite Scrubs quote. I'm not even going to think about attempting that.

I have so many I love, but this one I keep coming back to. Probably because of years of being a non-romance-novel shipper. :D

You know, my take on why the Doctor was so taken with Mme du Pompodour is that she's entirely too much like him. Rose is different, quirky, sometimes helpless, sometimes not (and I especially love that about her - that she's not the typical helpless fop we've seen in the past; sometimes, she rescues the Doctor); she's his balance. Mme. du Pompodour was more on his level, as well, a famous character from history, who'd more than made a name for herself. She could converse with the Doctor on a level that Rose simply isn't at; she's the closest thing to another Time Lord he's found.

Of course, what I want to know, is how much did "soaking up the sun" (so to speak) change Rose? Is it possible to absorb all that and not be changed by it? Has she become something more than human, and the Doctor just totally unaware?

More I could say on the best friends thing, but this comment's already long enough as is ;)

Oh, I think that's pretty true about Mme du Pompodour. How could he not be attracted to her?

Yeah, it will be interesting to see if they're going to have some kind of fallout with Rose. At first I thought they were going to drop it. Relating to a Gelth line about how the Time War had an effect on higher beings but wasn't noticed by lower beings. I'm assuming humans are in the lower beings category. So my theory was that that whole Time Vortex thing didn't really do any permanant damage like it did to the Doctor because, lower being.

But after Tooth and Claw when it was brought up again, I'm not so sure. Of course, that could have just been a nod.

You mean that they thought it killed Doctor/Rose?

I think many of them were so unhappy with the Doctor's decision to leave Mickey and Rose on the space station that it's irreversibly changed the way they look at him. They just don't like him as much as they used to, even though they still want to like him. That part of the episode bothered me too, but clearly not to the same extent.

But it wasn't just that, it's also the lack of continuity between episodes and the lack of Rose, and other things as well, that's bothering people. All compaints that I sympathize with, but which don't seem to bother me as much as they bother others. But still, GitFP seems to be the clear cut off at which point a lot of my friends lost their enthusiasm for the show.

I guess I have too many OTP battle scars from my last ship pairing to be very phased by a one-episode third party storyline.

Hee! What ship was that?

I think many of them were so unhappy with the Doctor's decision to leave Mickey and Rose on the space station that it's irreversibly changed the way they look at him. They just don't like him as much as they used to, even though they still want to like him. That part of the episode bothered me too, but clearly not to the same extent.

Yeah. :-\

After reflection, I still think that causality would have won out. If the Doctor had ended up "taking the slow path," he probably would have gotten back to Rose and Mickey *before* five and a half hours. Or at least around that time. He probably would have made sure to hitch a ride to the station before they got there, and then just hid out until after his past self crashed through the mirror. Then he could have popped out of a closet or something.

But since he did find a short path way back, they had to wait. A tad ironic...

At least, this is what I tell myself to make me feel better. :D

But it wasn't just that, it's also the lack of continuity between episodes and the lack of Rose, and other things as well, that's bothering people. All compaints that I sympathize with, but which don't seem to bother me as much as they bother others. But still, GitFP seems to be the clear cut off at which point a lot of my friends lost their enthusiasm for the show.

Yeah, I kinda got the feeling from a couple of the eps that they were doing some backpedaling to try and quick shove some character development in before the rest of the series. Actually, I think GitFP would have worked a whole lot better last series. Where it actually aired was a bit jagged.

Hee! What ship was that?

Oh, Sam and Jack (http://samandjack.stargate-sg1.hu/) from Stargate SG-1. :)

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The Age of Steel

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