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Oh, here we go...
After seeing The Sarah Jane Adventures first episode, and "School Reunion," I've been thinking about something that was said in both episodes that I know have irked many people.
"Well, there was really ever only one man for me. And after that, nothing compared."
Yeah, *that* line. Heh.
I know a lot of people hated a similar line that was said in "School Reunion" because it made it seem like Sarah Jane had been pining away for the Doctor all these years. And...I'm not sure if that's it.
So Sarah Jane didn't have a lasting romantic relationship after being with the Doctor. I don't know if this is even a question of Sarah Jane being "weak" or "strong" when it comes to this. It's simply, no one else compared.
God, this is a LAME analogy, but it's the first thing that popped into my head. Sarah Jane had fillet mignon. But now everyone else, at least when it comes to being involved with someone like that, are hot dogs. Sure, you *can* live on hot dogs and even like hot dogs, but why just settle for hot dogs? :D
Shoot, you could even say that Sarah Jane was *stronger* in that she didn't feel like she *had* to get married just because the social norm is to have a man (or have kids), and so settle for second best.
Rather than pining, I see her as not settling. And I rather admire that.
ETA: And I guess I'm seeing Sarah Jane expecting the Doctor to come back and the fact that she didn't get involved with someone as sorta separate issues. Sorta. But I could be madly trying to get away from the whole "pining" thing since it just didn't seem like pining. Or maybe like so many other people, I don't *want* it to be pining.
ETA2: Now spoilers for The Runaway Bride in the comments.
"Well, there was really ever only one man for me. And after that, nothing compared."
Yeah, *that* line. Heh.
I know a lot of people hated a similar line that was said in "School Reunion" because it made it seem like Sarah Jane had been pining away for the Doctor all these years. And...I'm not sure if that's it.
So Sarah Jane didn't have a lasting romantic relationship after being with the Doctor. I don't know if this is even a question of Sarah Jane being "weak" or "strong" when it comes to this. It's simply, no one else compared.
God, this is a LAME analogy, but it's the first thing that popped into my head. Sarah Jane had fillet mignon. But now everyone else, at least when it comes to being involved with someone like that, are hot dogs. Sure, you *can* live on hot dogs and even like hot dogs, but why just settle for hot dogs? :D
Shoot, you could even say that Sarah Jane was *stronger* in that she didn't feel like she *had* to get married just because the social norm is to have a man (or have kids), and so settle for second best.
Rather than pining, I see her as not settling. And I rather admire that.
ETA: And I guess I'm seeing Sarah Jane expecting the Doctor to come back and the fact that she didn't get involved with someone as sorta separate issues. Sorta. But I could be madly trying to get away from the whole "pining" thing since it just didn't seem like pining. Or maybe like so many other people, I don't *want* it to be pining.
ETA2: Now spoilers for The Runaway Bride in the comments.
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But I think that alot of people think that 'wasting' your life by spending it alone is a sign of weakness and naive hope. I believe the theory behind the "Rose Lives" comm is that her life is no longer defined by the Doctor and she is not so weak as to pine away in a depression for him. I agree with them that this vision degrades her strong character, but I also think that Rose would constantly measuring the men in her life to the Doctor, and that she would stick to the people who knew him, because they at least would understand her better.
I think that if Rose never marries, she's not a spinster or fragile girl moping away, but someone who has accepted her fate and wont settle for what's normal, after her fantastic experiences. Sarah Jane is very similar in that respect, she will always love the Doctor, but she doesn't want to ruin the memory by cheapening it by constant comparison. Instead she looks for what adventure she can find.
Also....does she have a son? So there must have been ONE special relationship.
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Hrm.
I believe the theory behind the "Rose Lives" comm is that her life is no longer defined by the Doctor and she is not so weak as to pine away in a depression for him. I agree with them that this vision degrades her strong character, but I also think that Rose would constantly measuring the men in her life to the Doctor, and that she would stick to the people who knew him, because they at least would understand her better.
Well...it's *nice* to think that Rose is this superwoman who will be so much more "strong" than Sarah Jane in this matter. But I just do not see how her relationship with the Doctor *won't* have a profound effect on the rest of her life.
To me it's just another aspect of fallout of Doomsday.
I think that if Rose never marries, she's not a spinster or fragile girl moping away, but someone who has accepted her fate and wont settle for what's normal, after her fantastic experiences. Sarah Jane is very similar in that respect, she will always love the Doctor, but she doesn't want to ruin the memory by cheapening it by constant comparison. Instead she looks for what adventure she can find.
Right. I mean, for God's sake, does there have to be a man in Rose's or Sarah Jane's life to validate them? I think *that's* what's ruffling my feathers.
Also....does she have a son? So there must have been ONE special relationship.
Sarah Jane? Oh, this was an adoption thing in the first episode of SJA.
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Not that I think Rose will spend the rest of her life in a state of depression. Just, I think it would be damn hard for her to have some sort of "normal" relationship with a guy.
(I always think that if Mickey's smart, and I think he is, he wouldn't even try to start up a relationship with Rose in that way again. Just because he *knows* he'd always be second best. And Mickey deserves better than just second best.)
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AMEN. You summed it up much more succinctly, but it's what I've been saying all along, and why the various diatribes got on my nerves so much.
It's that whole "people will hear what they want to hear" thing -- so many people seemed to go from the ASSUMPTION that the writing was coming from the pov that She Must Have A Man For Her Life To Be Complete, and proceeded to froth at the mouth about their own assumptions.
Now, there is the fact that the Doctor and the experiences a companion has in his company are inextricably intertwined, and nothing can compare to the experiences either. But you notice nobody seemed to be getty all huffy and indignant about that.
They just read it as "Sarah being reduced to Pining For A Man," ran off on their self-righteous tear about that, and Godd/ess help you if you pointed out just how much they were doing it to themselves. Seriously. I tried. :-P
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Yeah, you've totally been saying stuff like this, and I've been paying attention! :)
It's that whole "people will hear what they want to hear" thing -- so many people seemed to go from the ASSUMPTION that the writing was coming from the pov that She Must Have A Man For Her Life To Be Complete, and proceeded to froth at the mouth about their own assumptions.
Right. I mean, I *still* do not think, from watching Classic and School Reunion, that Sarah Jane ever 1) had a romantic relationship with the Doctor or 2) necessarily wanted a romantic relationship with the Doctor. But he was a dear friend and it was an amazing life. She totally wanted to go back.
Now, there is the fact that the Doctor and the experiences a companion has in his company are inextricably intertwined, and nothing can compare to the experiences either. But you notice nobody seemed to be getty all huffy and indignant about that.
Uh huh. I mean, good grief! Look at Donna in The Runaway Bride. She was with the Doctor for mere *hours* and it totally impacted her life by the end. How could it not have a lasting effect on people who have traveled with him for years?
They just read it as "Sarah being reduced to Pining For A Man," ran off on their self-righteous tear about that, and Godd/ess help you if you pointed out just how much they were doing it to themselves. Seriously. I tried. :-P
Well, yeah. If you're upset that SJ never got together with someone because she was supposedly "pining away" for the Doctor, wouldn't that just get you right back to SJ needing some sort of man for validation?
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When the 13-year-old girl matter-of-factly doesn't believe that "not part of a couple" = "alone," somebody's doing something right.
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Seriously, I think she had moved on from the Doctor to a certain extent, but more in a repressing the memories kind of way than a dealing with them way, which is why the TARDIS appearing was so shocking to her. I mean, she stepped back and then ran away. That's why she needed the closure.
Now, I do think that there was no romantic relationship between SJ and the Doctor, at least in the same way one was played up between Rose and the Doctor, but that could have been the period it aired in as much as anything else. That and it's difficult to continually explain how the Doctor could have romantic relationships with all these companions over the years - he'd be a veritable misogynist, or a pervert given that many were supposed to be teenagers.
But I could well see how SJ might have found that nobody on earth compared to the Doctor once she had returned. I'm sure she tried to move on after a short time in which she thought he may be coming back, but perhaps found that subconsciously she was comparing all the men she met to him, and finding that they didn't measure up. I mean, how many guys out there were willing to sacrifice themselves to save her, the same way the Doctor did so many times? They'd all seem so shallow by comparison.
So I agree, albeit that I may have reached the conclusion a slightly different way.
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Right right right.
Seriously, I think she had moved on from the Doctor to a certain extent, but more in a repressing the memories kind of way than a dealing with them way, which is why the TARDIS appearing was so shocking to her. I mean, she stepped back and then ran away. That's why she needed the closure.
Interesting point, about her running away. Very interesting. Hadn't really thought about that.
Now, I do think that there was no romantic relationship between SJ and the Doctor, at least in the same way one was played up between Rose and the Doctor, but that could have been the period it aired in as much as anything else.
Yeah, but it just didn't even seem to give off any kind of vibe. Unlike what I'm hearing was there with Romana.
That and it's difficult to continually explain how the Doctor could have romantic relationships with all these companions over the years - he'd be a veritable misogynist, or a pervert given that many were supposed to be teenagers.
Right. It's just...ugh. I said this in some post recently. But compare it to anyone else's life. You have family and friends, and you may love them all. But you're going to have very different relationships with each one. That the Doctor had a romantic relationship with all his companions is beyond creepy. And just really not his character.
But I could well see how SJ might have found that nobody on earth compared to the Doctor once she had returned. I'm sure she tried to move on after a short time in which she thought he may be coming back, but perhaps found that subconsciously she was comparing all the men she met to him, and finding that they didn't measure up. I mean, how many guys out there were willing to sacrifice themselves to save her, the same way the Doctor did so many times? They'd all seem so shallow by comparison.
Yep yep yep yep yep.
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and honestly, seettling for something less then what your heart wants (even if it is impossible to get) is less brave and heroic then being content with what you have and what you make of what you have.
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Totally. And get you to open up your mind, etc. and all that.
and honestly, seettling for something less then what your heart wants (even if it is impossible to get) is less brave and heroic then being content with what you have and what you make of what you have.
YES! That's it exactly.