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Doctor Who: The Movie. Minute 25 - end

Hmm. Is that supposed to be the sonic screwdriver? And a sonic yo-yo?

And the Doctor has a moment with a Nixon mask. Huh. So...hospital staff by day, ren-fest workers by night?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!! Okay, seriously. How is this not a major slash pairing?! "I need the Doctor's body." ~ The Master.

The Doctor on acid.

BWAH! "Hi. I'm Dick Jackass. I'm gonna just burn the x-ray of scary double hearts here a sec. Hold on. There." *SNORT*

Ooooh, the Doctor making the moves on the other doctor in the elevator. And with the open shirt and "here, listen to my hearts *wink nod*" And they say he's asexual! Ha!

Okay, gotta say that the mind reading thing is a wee bit creepy.

Um...how did the Master get into the TARDIS?

Awww! Reference to the Doctor's dad! So, NOT looms. Heh heh.

Wow. Cloister room. Like I've said before, the TARDIS is frickin Disneyland. That they never show. Also, am kinda sad that the kid's encounter with the Eye of Harmony didn't turn him into an egg.

*SMOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOCH* See? NOT asexual! HA!

OMGTHEDOCTORISHALFHUMAN!!!!11!!! Heh. Knew that before, actually. Wonder if they'll ever mention that bit of fan flailing in the new series.

Hmm. The Earth could get sucked into the Eye of Harmony if not closed? Kind of a design flaw there.

Yes, tea really is the answer to everything, eh Doctor? Also, midnight? Why is everything always midnight?

Awww. The Doctor snuggles up to Grace. *pats*

Yup. TOTAL Master/Doctor UST. Come on!

Can Time Lords spit acid? Or did the Master just puke? I'm really not sure what just happened.

Director of movie: "Dammit, we paid for chickens and we're going to get shots of chickens. LOTS of shots of chickens."

The Doctor talks some shit involving making Grace's dreams coming true today. I'm thinking he's chatting her up. She buys it and shoots out a police radio. I'm not exactly sure what I should be saying here.

How was this movie made in the 90s? How? It's just so 80s.

Again, the Master/Time Lords can slime people? Am confused.

HUH? So the alarm is pulled but yet there's a dude who feels the need to do a little vacuuming. Even though there was a party going on seconds earlier. CONFUSED.

DUDE. Time Lords ARE Goa'ulds! That Master outfit? That's some classic Baal right there. HEE!!

Hmm. The Doctor and bondage seem to go together frequently. Also, wow. Yeah. Very crucifixion-like. You know, in the fix-it fic I'm working on I had Jack give an acerbic, backhanded reference to the Doctor as Jesus, but that was only based on all the S2 god references. Score for me, I suppose.

The Master: "I'm taking all your lives! Ooooh, I am *so* going to enjoy being bipolar two incarnations from now."

Sweet Lord, I am watching Time Lord sex.

Just reverse the polarity, Grace!

I'm not really sure what just happened, but the music is telling me it's dramatic.

"I love you, Doctor!" "I love you, Master!" Just cry, Doctor. You know you want to.

Where the hell are the dead leaves in the TARDIS coming from??

Awww, poor Doctor. Grace rejects him. *pats him*

*bops to enthusiastic theme music*

Well, that was... Yeah.

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How was this movie made in the 90s? How? It's just so 80s.

*snerk* Yes. Actually, it felt like one of the really horribly bad Highlander sequel movies that all HL fans disavow to the nth power. One of which has the distinct privilege of being the first of only two movies that caused me to actually walk out of the theater before it finished.

I felt for awhile like I should re-watch it, because people really seem to like Eight and I figured I was missing something. Then I realized that actually? What they liked about Eight had very little to do with the movie and everything to do with the audio plays and novels they got.

*nodnodnodnod*

I actually thought in the earliest books that he was a little too close to the way he is in the movie, complete with traits that I ascribe more to regeneration crisis than to the incarnation's actual personality. But it settles down, and they go some very interesting places with him.

I enjoy the movie, myself, but there's some serious cheese that's somehow harder to swallow when it isn't properly Beeb-flavored.

*snerk* Yes. Actually, it felt like one of the really horribly bad Highlander sequel movies that all HL fans disavow to the nth power. One of which has the distinct privilege of being the first of only two movies that caused me to actually walk out of the theater before it finished.

Wow. That's pretty bad.

I felt for awhile like I should re-watch it, because people really seem to like Eight and I figured I was missing something. Then I realized that actually? What they liked about Eight had very little to do with the movie and everything to do with the audio plays and novels they got.

Sounds like it.

:: dies laughing first, then... ::

So...hospital staff by day, ren-fest workers by night?

New Year's Eve masquerade party. A/k/a the only excuse the writers could come up with for the Doctor finding appropriately Doctorish clothing in a hospital on Earth in 1999.

Also, am kinda sad that the kid's encounter with the Eye of Harmony didn't turn him into an egg.

*giggle* He's human. The TARDIS likes humans.

Also, the actual Eye of Harmony (to which the thing in the Cloister Room that is referred to as the Eye of Harmony is actually just a connection, thus sayeth We Who Like The Movie And Are Determined To Make It Make Sense) no longer exists in new Who. Or, more likely, is just a normal black hole and is no longer being harnessed by the Time Lords due to the fact that they no longer exist.

So the TARDIS as it currently functions is jury-rigged sixty-seven ways from last Thursday to somehow tap directly into the time vortex itself, which it didn't actually do before. (And was not originally designed to do, except the Doctor has apparently done some VERY interesting things to it so that he can continue to travel in it.) Hence the "refueling" on the rift in Cardiff.

So Lee looking into the Eye isn't actually the same thing as Margaret or Rose looking into the console -- the energy is filtered through more layers of tech and dimensional weirdness, instead of being the raw vortex that you get now.

Okay, gotta say that the mind reading thing is a wee bit creepy.

It gets toned down a bit in the Eight books -- he mostly just finishes sentences or answers loudly thought questions/comments that he probably doesn't realize weren't said aloud. I think we can safely chalk up the deeper read on Grace to freshly-regenerated synapses.

Can Time Lords spit acid? Or did the Master just puke? I'm really not sure what just happened.

The Master is...really not his proper species anymore in this. I'm not entirely certain what he is. I need to work it out, at least in my head, because it will figure into my fic. (Hubby thinks I should avoid it by using an earlier version of him, but there are a number of reasons why my plot needs him to be in the same relative timeframe as the Doctor.)

It's one of the things Terrance Dicks tried to retcon in The Eight Doctors (first of that book series), with a flashback to the Master buying some kind of worm...thingie...that will keep his consciousness alive if his body is destroyed, until he can steal another one. (Which he's done once before, but that involved a power source to which he had only temporary access.) Even that, however, didn't try to address the slime thing, except I think there was some vague allusion to "side effects." Which would also probably include the tacky contacts. (Those could also be a leftover from when he was starting to turn into a Cheetah Person in "Survival," the last story of the classic series, except that it doesn't make sense with his body having been ex-ter-mi-nated. So.)

The Master is the one thing about the movie that I can't quite retcon into sense, no matter how hard I try. Fortunately, most of the things that bug me can be fairly handily ignored when I'm not actually watching the thing. (Er...the previous several paragraphs of babbling in a clearly non-ignoring way notwithstanding...)

How was this movie made in the 90s? How? It's just so 80s.

Vancouver. With a Brit director.

Where the hell are the dead leaves in the TARDIS coming from??

Atmosphere. The TARDIS goes in for that in a big way in the cloister room. I've seen it with ivy growing on the walls. Gotta love block transfer -- reality inside the TARDIS really is what the TARDIS wants it to be...

New Year's Eve masquerade party. A/k/a the only excuse the writers could come up with for the Doctor finding appropriately Doctorish clothing in a hospital on Earth in 1999.

OHHHHHHH. Another thing that flew right past me.

thus sayeth We Who Like The Movie And Are Determined To Make It Make Sense)

*snickers*

(And was not originally designed to do, except the Doctor has apparently done some VERY interesting things to it so that he can continue to travel in it.) Hence the "refueling" on the rift in Cardiff.

I did read some meta stuff about that - where things are very different after the Time War because of whatever happened. Drawing power in different ways, not being able to hop to AUs, etc.

So Lee looking into the Eye isn't actually the same thing as Margaret or Rose looking into the console -- the energy is filtered through more layers of tech and dimensional weirdness, instead of being the raw vortex that you get now.

That makes sense. In the "Doctor Who makes sense" kind of way, that is. ;)

It gets toned down a bit in the Eight books -- he mostly just finishes sentences or answers loudly thought questions/comments that he probably doesn't realize weren't said aloud. I think we can safely chalk up the deeper read on Grace to freshly-regenerated synapses.

Hopefully it was more of a new regeneration thing. Or maybe he figures out that it's RUDE. :D Although now I'm more thinking that the whole "red bicycle" thing with Rose was just the Doctor reading her mind.

The Master is the one thing about the movie that I can't quite retcon into sense, no matter how hard I try.

Oy. It's a shame that the books and fans have to try in the first place. It was weird.

Atmosphere. The TARDIS goes in for that in a big way in the cloister room. I've seen it with ivy growing on the walls. Gotta love block transfer -- reality inside the TARDIS really is what the TARDIS wants it to be...

Okay, I think I love that. :D

*opens door*

"Uh, Doctor? Why is there a room filled with ducks?"

"Maybe the TARDIS was in a fowl mood?"

*thwacks him upside the head*

OHHHHHHH. Another thing that flew right past me.

I think it's the morgue guys who mention it in passing early on. Somebody is going as Wyatt Earp, or some legendary cowboy. That's the costume the Doctor swipes (leaving behind the hat and toy guns). And I think it's the guy who ends up coming to the party dressed as a corpse wrapped in a sheet and scares the crap out of the morgue guy who was there when the Doctor got up.

Something about it plays too much like filler dialogue to register that the content is going to matter later. I know I didn't remember the conversation at all the first time I watched it. I came up with the costume party thing solely based on the Doctor finding costumes in the lockers (possibly aided by PotO fandom establishing the notion of New Year's Eve costume party).

Although now I'm more thinking that the whole "red bicycle" thing with Rose was just the Doctor reading her mind.

I've rather assumed that, actually. I'm not sure to what extent he knows he's doing it -- his telepathy has varied through the different regenerations, with Five, Seven, and especially Eight and Ten seeming to be the most sensitive. (Nine less so, it seems to me, which I suspect was a defense mechanism in the course of regenerating. The folks running the show now are familiar enough with the books, and seem to have a certain amount of conceptual connection to them, and Eight went through a shitload of trauma that could have been ameliorated by being a bit LESS psychic.)

Oy. It's a shame that the books and fans have to try in the first place. It was weird.

Big, big, big understatement. And it's frustrating, because the Master is such an awesome villain. And I actually love Eric Roberts, and think he could have done a great job with the character if they'd given it to him a bit straighter. He's changed bodies before; the execution of the concept just turned out so wonky.

Also, someone who once hypnotized Jo Grant into carrying an armed bomb into UNIT headquarters? Really doesn't need to slime people into immobility. It was just an excuse to play with slime, and exceedingly annoying. The Master is, as I read once to my great amusement, nuttier than squirrel shit. But he's nutty with class, dammit!

"Uh, Doctor? Why is there a room filled with ducks?"

"Maybe the TARDIS was in a fowl mood?"

*thwacks him upside the head*

BWAH! Well,

kateorman created one filled with butterflies in Vampire Science...

I've rather assumed that, actually. I'm not sure to what extent he knows he's doing it -- his telepathy has varied through the different regenerations, with Five, Seven, and especially Eight and Ten seeming to be the most sensitive. (Nine less so, it seems to me, which I suspect was a defense mechanism in the course of regenerating. The folks running the show now are familiar enough with the books, and seem to have a certain amount of conceptual connection to them, and Eight went through a shitload of trauma that could have been ameliorated by being a bit LESS psychic.)

Poor Doctor. I would think that most the time he would want to have the ability to turn something like that off. Don't know if he can.

Big, big, big understatement. And it's frustrating, because the Master is such an awesome villain. And I actually love Eric Roberts, and think he could have done a great job with the character if they'd given it to him a bit straighter. He's changed bodies before; the execution of the concept just turned out so wonky.

Yeah, I keep hearing snips about the Master. This *probably* wasn't the best introduction to him. :D Now I'll probably forever think he's secretly got the hots for the Doctor. HA!

Also, someone who once hypnotized Jo Grant into carrying an armed bomb into UNIT headquarters? Really doesn't need to slime people into immobility. It was just an excuse to play with slime, and exceedingly annoying.

And just really, really confusing.

The Master is, as I read once to my great amusement, nuttier than squirrel shit. But he's nutty with class, dammit!

HA!

BWAH! Well, kateorman created one filled with butterflies in Vampire Science...

Okay, I haven't read that one, but I have read a few D/R fics a while back that also each had a "Butterfly Room." I just assumed it was from some canon somewhere - book, TV, audio... :-\

Hmmm. I may need to add The Duck Room to a future fic. HEE!!!

"Oh bloody hell. The warp drive control needs fixing."

"So?"

"It's in...the Duck Room."

I would think that most the time he would want to have the ability to turn something like that off. Don't know if he can.

I tend to think not. I was about to say earlier that I wasn't sure he does understand about the RUDE, except that the dialogue when he was reading Reinette would seem to indicate at least a basic grasp of telepathic etiquette. But the deliberate reading of Reinette and Chloe is a different case from the random stuff he seems to pick up by accident, like the red bicycle thing.

This *probably* wasn't the best introduction to him. :D Now I'll probably forever think he's secretly got the hots for the Doctor. HA!

Well, it certainly wasn't the best introduction, but you'd probably end up thinking that regardless. The original concept behind him was "Moriarty to the Doctor's Sherlock Holmes," which almost invariably leads to slashy subtext.

I still want them to cast Jack Davenport when they (inevitably, really) bring the Master back in the new series. (I'm so writing my fic with him as the Master in mind.) They have writers from two series where he was the lead; there's no way they haven't thought about casting him in something. And I want to see his range stretched a bit more. The ultimate gentleman psychopath could be just the ticket.

Okay, I haven't read that one, but I have read a few D/R fics a while back that also each had a "Butterfly Room." I just assumed it was from some canon somewhere - book, TV, audio... :-\

It is, in fact, a book, early in the Eighth Doctor series. The authors (it was written by a husband/wife team) just still consider themselves fans like the rest of us and hang out on LJ accordingly. :-)

Hmmm. I may need to add The Duck Room to a future fic. HEE!!!

Do! Then I can borrow it!! ;-D

But the deliberate reading of Reinette and Chloe is a different case from the random stuff he seems to pick up by accident, like the red bicycle thing.

I prefer the former rather than the latter, but I suppose it is what it is. If he's that way, you can't really get around it.

I'm probably also scarred from a fic I read a while back where the Doctor was pervily listening to people's sex thoughts and OMG. The ick.

The original concept behind him was "Moriarty to the Doctor's Sherlock Holmes," which almost invariably leads to slashy subtext.

This is true. :D

I still want them to cast Jack Davenport when they (inevitably, really) bring the Master back in the new series. (I'm so writing my fic with him as the Master in mind.)

That would be AWESOME.

It is, in fact, a book, early in the Eighth Doctor series. The authors (it was written by a husband/wife team) just still consider themselves fans like the rest of us and hang out on LJ accordingly. :-)

How cool!

Do! Then I can borrow it!! ;-D

HEE!

I just might. :D

*Laughs* XD

Yes, I guess the movie is a bit naff, sometimes. As I said before, suspension of belief is helpful when you watch this. The audio dramas are much better. XD

Still, DocxGrace is, you have to admit, slightly cute. Come ooooooon~! Admit it! =P

It's good to see you getting into the "Classic" series, though. Now go watch the rest. XD

Yes, I guess the movie is a bit naff, sometimes. As I said before, suspension of belief is helpful when you watch this. The audio dramas are much better. XD

Yeah, should really try those. Would be good for the car.

Still, DocxGrace is, you have to admit, slightly cute. Come ooooooon~! Admit it! =P

It is! Although I think I would have liked Grace better if they hadn't started her out crying at an opera in a prom dress. And gave her better lines. Although the Doctor is adorable with her. *pets*

It's good to see you getting into the "Classic" series, though. Now go watch the rest. XD

Ha!

Um. Wow - I'm really not sure if I ever want to watch that movie.

oh and half the fandom says it's not cannon and the other half do so if you want him to be half human he can be or he might not be.

It was...very B movie.

Not sure I really care one way or the other if he's half human or not. If he is, I'd have to think that the Gallifreyan DNA was 100% dominant as I don't think they've ever said he has any "inferior" traits. (Although, maybe that's why he needs glasses every few regenerations. Hmm.) In the movie, it really seemed like it was thrown in there as a "shocker" moment without actually thinking it through. Of course, a lot of it wasn't really thought through.

Not sure exactly who they thought their audience was when they made this movie. They didn't seem to particularly care too much about the details of what went on before, so it wouldn't generally appeal to existing fans. And there's just no way you could get any new fans with this movie.

The best thing about this movie for me really was the reference to his dad. Supposedly an early memory where they were lying out in a field, watching a meteor shower on Gallifrey, and it was like AWWWWWWWW!! Wee!Doctor! Yes, he probably looked 75 when he was 3, but still! ;)

*giggles madly*

I actually have a scary fondness for the movie. Possibly because he's just so... bouncy. And keen to see everything. Plus, they shot Sylv. And Lee is amusing.

I totally ignore most of the continuity it inflicts, however. 'Cause, yeah.

~~It might also be because Paul McGann has very pretty eyes~~

I actually have a scary fondness for the movie. Possibly because he's just so... bouncy. And keen to see everything.

I thought he was very adorable. There's this childlike innocence to him, for lack of a better description. Ten *acts* like he's 5, but Eight in this movie had the actual childlike qualities. And seemed to be lacking the general superiority/arrogance of other incarnations I've seen - Four, Nine and Ten. Not saying that's good or bad one way or the other, just something I noticed.

I totally ignore most of the continuity it inflicts, however. 'Cause, yeah.

Heh heh. Well, you gotta. DW's so funny - half the time you're trying to decide which canon to throw out. Ha!

~~It might also be because Paul McGann has very pretty eyes~~

He does!

Ten *acts* like he's 5, but Eight in this movie had the actual childlike qualities. And seemed to be lacking the general superiority/arrogance of other incarnations I've seen

They go really interesting places with this in the books. At one point someone asks him how old he is, and he thinks a moment and says "Three." And is then forced to explain that he means this body is three, and launch into some convoluted stuff about his actual age, ending with the person who originally asked the question being a bit freaked out by it, even though she pretty much knew. And the Doctor's like, "See? That's why I like three better."

There are also all sorts of allusions to this incarnation being a reboot of sorts, like he shucked off a lot of stuff he didn't like about himself and started over. He's not entirely sure himself how deliberate it is, or how successful for that matter -- as opposed to flat-out denial, and just running away from the complications of his own past actions.

It gets very involved. That's the main thing I've found with the books -- they go in-depth with these ideas that you can only glancingly hint at in the TV medium. It makes it feel not quite like Dr. Who, and yet it is. Like you can sort of see all this stuff working under the surface of the show, but it gets weird because I don't always agree with the interpretation. I really cherry-pick things I choose to accept from the books and audios both. Which you can get away with, since the canonicity of anything not seen on TV is completely up in the air as far as both the fandom and the Beeb are concerned.

ending with the person who originally asked the question being a bit freaked out by it, even though she pretty much knew. And the Doctor's like, "See? That's why I like three better."

Heh heh.

There are also all sorts of allusions to this incarnation being a reboot of sorts, like he shucked off a lot of stuff he didn't like about himself and started over. He's not entirely sure himself how deliberate it is, or how successful for that matter -- as opposed to flat-out denial, and just running away from the complications of his own past actions.

That's an interesting concept, and one I've thought about before. It would be easy to do something like that - make a fresh start with stuff you don't like. But then again, if he didn't like it before, why wait until a regeneration to make a change? And just how much can you get away from the past just with a new body?

It gets very involved. That's the main thing I've found with the books -- they go in-depth with these ideas that you can only glancingly hint at in the TV medium.

Oh totally. I mean, even with the 9 & 10 novels I've read, which really weren't *that* deep, there was occasionally some very snifty ideas here and there.

I really cherry-pick things I choose to accept from the books and audios both. Which you can get away with, since the canonicity of anything not seen on TV is completely up in the air as far as both the fandom and the Beeb are concerned.

This really is the oddest fandom I've run across. :D

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