Oh, Doctor Who fandom. You crazy outhouse rat.

[mrv3000]

Was snickering the other day at a mention of someone looking at some fandom discussion and then running like hell. Reminded me that a while back I'd typed up my own personal experience with the Doctor Who fandom when I entered at the beginning of S2. Not that I've really participated, just have watched it all.

Some have great experiences, some have lousy. This is mine as a Doctor/Rose shipper. It's why I hide from large communities and cling to my flist. I'm not even *tempted* to look at what goes on in the big communities.

Am I looking for some kind of "pet me, I'm a victim" thing? Nooooo. I'm trying to warn people. Stay the hell away from fandom!

ETA: Now some spoilers for S3 in the comments.

My Exposure to Doctor Who Fandom

The Players

D/R Shippers: The all-inclusive pool of Doctor/Rose shippers, which runs the gamut from mildly interested in the pairing, to scarily militant.

Does-Not-Like-Rose Fen (DNLRF): Fen who had decided that Rose was the worst thing to happen to Doctor Who. Reasons varied, including "because she's poor." (You know, because being lower-class is WRONG.) A subset of this is the Does-Not-Like-Rose-Fen Fen, but let's keep things simple.

Branched-off D/R Shippers: Shippers who, over time, have begun to cling together after getting sick of the DNLRF.

*

D/R Shippers: OMGSQUEE!

DNLRF: *runs in* WRONG! You are WRONG! And here are 25 old-school reasons why.

D/R Shippers: :( *tries again* SQUEE!!

DNLRF: *runs in* STILL WRONG!

D/R Shippers: SQUEE?

DNLRF: *runs in* WROOOOOOOOONG!

D/R Shippers: pthththt! SQUEEE!

DNLRF: *runs in* You're so fucking wrong and it's really sad you can't see your own wrongness.

D/R Shippers: SCREW YOU!

DNLRF: *runs in* HAHAHAHAHA! You're so totally wanky!

D/R Shippers: LEAVE US ALONE!

DNLRF: *runs in* NO! As you are wanky and STILL need to be constantly told how wrong you are!

D/R Shippers: @#$@#$!!!!

DNLRF: *runs in* BWAH! Wankers! You all totally suck! Oh, and are WRONG!

Branched-off D/R Shippers: *watches old school Who* Okay, where the *hell* are the DNLRF getting their "canon" from?

D/R Shippers: *a year after Rose is gone* Awww! SQUEE!!

DNLRF: Aren't you listening?? WRONG!!!! Oh, and even your fic is wrong!

Branched-off D/R Shippers: Nuts to this! *burrows down into approximately 57 locked journals and communities*

DNLRF: Why can't these people MOVE ON?!!! We've been pounding this into them for over a year!

Branched-off D/R Shippers: *from inside hole* Yeeeah. Screw you. We've got booze and snacks and squee down here. *adds more salt to the margaritas*

ETA: OMG, I totally want a margarita now. I'm like craving one.

Comments

[wiliqueen.livejournal.com]

Reasons varied, including "because she's poor."

If only staying away from fandom would work. Apparently aj had a random stranger on the Tube in London give her this "well, duh!!" attitude about explaining that Rose wasn't good enough for the Doctor because she was "low." And several other random strangers agreed and gave every impression of thinking Aj was looneytunes for not getting the obviousness of it.

Humans is just skeery critters. O_o

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

WTFF?? O_O

Holy crap, is this some sort of...British thing or something? Is class really this huge issue? You know, if it is, it's quite possible then that RTD had a *point* he was trying to make as he tends to like the social commentary.

[wiliqueen.livejournal.com]

Holy crap, is this some sort of...British thing or something? Is class really this huge issue?

Umm...yes, and yes. In spades.

it's quite possible then that RTD had a *point* he was trying to make as he tends to like the social commentary.

It's more than possible, it's likely. Of course, then you get working-class folks *koff*nos*koff who declare him to be Doing It Wrong In His Well-Meaning Middle-Class Way. (I understand the position, but I refuse to explain it. It'll just make your head explode whether I do or not.) But he's definitely doing it.

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

Umm...yes, and yes. In spades.

Erg, man. Stuff like that tends to make me crackers.

It's more than possible, it's likely. Of course, then you get working-class folks *koff*nos*koff who declare him to be Doing It Wrong In His Well-Meaning Middle-Class Way. (I understand the position, but I refuse to explain it. It'll just make your head explode whether I do or not.) But he's definitely doing it.

*sighs*

How can someone look at the character of the Doctor and actually think he gives a shit about class and status? (Or race or gender or species, for that matter?) He starts out so far above everyone on the planet, that when it comes to "being good enough" when compared next to him, it doesn't matter if they're scraping by or if they're royalty. But yet he finds worth in people that's *beyond* the petty issues of society.

[poohmusings.livejournal.com]

Am I looking for some kind of "pet me, I'm a victim" thing?

*pets you, the victim* :)

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

Dork!

[katesutton.livejournal.com]

o.O Oh, Lord. I'd seen that reaction on lj and on TwoP-rejoicing that Rose and Jackie were gone, because they were annoying and low-class. I....what? If RTD was trying to make a point, more power to him. Because that's just icky.

[kammgirl.livejournal.com]

You POSTED it. I love this and sing it sister. Who fandom made me embrace my former fandoms with utter relief. They can be wanky as hell, but nothing is as ugly as Who. And heh I have had a similiar reaction after watching old school. And after seeing Martha I keep wondering where the completely competent companion I kept hearing about is. We must all be watching different shows.

[kammgirl.livejournal.com]

Can you imagine the reaction here if people went around saying that so and so on a TV show isn't good enough because they are lower class? There would be an uproar. And tell me what was low about Rose? They lived in our version of the projects but as far as I saw neither sat on their ass collecting welfare. They worked. They kept their place neat. They were kind to other people. WTF is low about that?

[kammgirl.livejournal.com]

I have had UK'ers explain the class distinction stuff to me so many times and I still don't get it.

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

You POSTED it. I love this and sing it sister.

Heh. I was in a mood today and brought it from out of the 57 locked journals...

Who fandom made me embrace my former fandoms with utter relief. They can be wanky as hell, but nothing is as ugly as Who.

It's just nasty. And people just utterly obsessed with other fandom groups. Haven't seen this since the SG-1 shipwars.

And heh I have had a similiar reaction after watching old school. And after seeing Martha I keep wondering where the completely competent companion I kept hearing about is. We must all be watching different shows.

Have you watched the rest of S3 yet? Because I see Martha the competent companion. That's one thing I do see in her. It's other things that have made me nuts with the character. One being the very little they've given in the way of characterization for her.

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

I'm pretty sure I don't want to understand it.

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

Yeah, tell me about it.

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

Yeah, it's just SO outside my thought process. I seriously never even *thought* about Rose's (or Jackie's) "status" until brought up in fandom. It wouldn't surprise me if I went back and looked at my metas from before this concept was introduced to me, that I'd have mentioned age and education when pointing out the differences between the Doctor and Rose. But class? Not even on the radar.

Besides, the Doctor? Noooot exactly the person you want to be holding up on class issues. He pretty much has always loathed the superiority of the Time Lords, as well as *constantly* being this black-sheep rebel in their society.

[kammgirl.livejournal.com]

I do like Martha from what I have seen thus far, but completely competent in comparison to Rose? That I don't see.

[debs7.livejournal.com]

yep still funny after all this time.

Not to mention completey true!

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

I don't know...

You know, I'll be honest. I've been a lot of times focused on Martha's Crush of Doom that I've not been keeping my attention on any "that was good/bad companioning." From what I recall, she's been pretty good at holding her own. She's had some screw-ups, but then so did Rose.

One difference I've noted though is that I really can't remember Martha ever contradicting the Doctor. Can't say she's had any "No, seriously, you can't!" "No, seriously, I can!" moments. That I can remember. But that's sort of extra-curricular companioning. Heh. But a plus side for Martha is she doesn't wander off. :D

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

I'd imagine some reading this will be like...yeah, right. But no. Sadly, this is pretty much accurate.

[threerings.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I had the same scary revelation about British culture as a result of Who fandom. I mean...what?

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

I'd heard about this whole "Rose = crap because she's lower class" thing before, but didn't realize it was so...part of the mindset or something. Random strangers on the train? I thought it was just some batshit fandom thing.

[beck-liz.livejournal.com]

Can't say she's had any "No, seriously, you can't!" "No, seriously, I can!" moments.

Well, one, in "The Sound of Drums." But there was an external reason for that, so I don't count it as being an indication of her contradicting the Doctor on a regular basis, because she hasn't been. That said, I do agree with you; generally, she's been a competent enough companion. She just hasn't stood out much beyond her crush, and since the crush aspect is the only thing standing out, that's what I tend to focus on, instead of her good qualities.

[beck-liz.livejournal.com]

You know, this still makes me crack up, even though I've already read it like a dozen times. It's only so funny because it's true, though.

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

Well, one, in "The Sound of Drums." But there was an external reason for that, so I don't count it as being an indication of her contradicting the Doctor on a regular basis, because she hasn't been.

Oh, with that "I'll do what I like" thing? Yeah, with that you're *finally* seeing Martha getting to that point of not doing whatever the Doctor says. \o/ Hopefully that trend will continue.

That said, I do agree with you; generally, she's been a competent enough companion. She just hasn't stood out much beyond her crush, and since the crush aspect is the only thing standing out, that's what I tend to focus on, instead of her good qualities.

Yeah, for me as well. She has done some awesome things. Like I was "wooooo!"-ing at her at the very beginning of Family of Blood. That was very kick-ass. But her kick-ass moments have been basically companion moments rather than Martha moments, if you catch the distinction. So you're right, what's been sticking out for me when couched in the pantheon of companions, has been her crush. And it's been a fairly negative thing.

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

Mwah! :D *pets shippy underground intertubes*

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

Besides, the Doctor? Noooot exactly the person you want to be holding up on class issues. He pretty much has always loathed the superiority of the Time Lords, as well as *constantly* being this black-sheep rebel in their society.

This was even alluded to in Sound of the Drums. The Doctor talks about Gallifrey and I believe Martha said something like "sounds beautiful." His reply was, "It was. Well, beautiful to *look* at." He just always clashed with this exclusive Time Lord society. Yes, Gallifrey was beautiful, but he avoided the place like the plague because of the Time Lords.