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One week on...

A week after the finale, and it just kinda keeps getting a bit more disappointing in my mind as time goes on. Utopia and Sound of Drums were *awesome* setups to the finale. I mean, AWESOME. I was way more enthralled with those than in past setups to finales - and even way more enthralled with them than anything else in S3. Utopia did an interesting human!Master who then reverted – John Smith wasn't *really* the Doctor, but some traits carried over. Makes you wonder how much of Yana is buried in the Master. And then Sound of Drums – everyone was kick-ass! The Master, his holy-crap-he's-married wife Lucy, the Doctor, Martha, Jack. Fantastic conversation between the Doctor and the Master, the Doctor gives a butt-load of Time Lord trivia, there's an explosion and the universe is ripped apart!

But then you get Last of the Time Lords. The fast-forward of a year skipped character development for *everyone*; OMG the plot holes; Jack does absolutely nothing except look dirty and pretty and give a WTF to the ending; the Doctor spends life as a house elf and there's no repeat of really cool conversations between him and the Master; we get no peek into the Master and Lucy other than he apparently beats her; Martha gets to be cool but again we miss all her character development to make it 100% believable; and Time Lords can apparently restore their bodies based on good vibes. By this point it was just so hard to really care about the Doctor sobbing over the Master.

So in conclusion, setup = AWESOME. Conclusion = not so awesome.

I really wish we'd gotten more on the Master and Lucy as I'm still a bit fascinated. Really, was he just using her? He seemed to like her well enough – even filled her in on his plans and so he seemed to trust her. Externally, it's a fairly useful tool to give someone a significant other. The audience got to see aspects to the Doctor that we could only see when Rose was with him – aspects that have since shut down. (Biggest obviously is the Doctor the man vs. the Doctor the god.) And we also got to see something different to the Master through Lucy, instead of just your straight-up evil bad guy.

And now completely random – why do I find the thought that there will be Doctor Who novels with Donna just so *amusing*? You know, I think I'm kinda seeing Donna as a bit of a joke at the moment – that she'll be this 24/7 wacky companion who likes to get drunk at intergalactic parties. On the one hand I hope that they'll give her a bit of depth to make me care about her (sorry, didn't really care that much about her in TRB), but on the other hand, don't know if I care if I care any more.

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You know, I think I'm kinda seeing Donna as a bit of a joke at the moment – that she'll be this 24/7 wacky companion who likes to get drunk at intergalactic parties.

[snicker] This would so make the most awesome fic. "The Hitchhiker's Guide to Parties Across the Galaxy."

I can understand what you're saying, but even in The Runaway Bride, Donna had lots of emotional moments--she was shrill and screaming, she was quiet and sad, she was silly, angry, compassionate, everything. I don't think they're going to make her one-note . . . 'cause we saw what happened in series 3 when they did that to the companion. And while Rusty et al might still love Martha, they're not going to do that again (oh, please please please, let them not do that again!)

[snicker] This would so make the most awesome fic. "The Hitchhiker's Guide to Parties Across the Galaxy."

HA!!! You know, I just keep picturing Donna doing shots with the Rhino Police for some reason...

I can understand what you're saying, but even in The Runaway Bride, Donna had lots of emotional moments--she was shrill and screaming, she was quiet and sad, she was silly, angry, compassionate, everything. I don't think they're going to make her one-note . . . 'cause we saw what happened in series 3 when they did that to the companion. And while Rusty et al might still love Martha, they're not going to do that again (oh, please please please, let them not do that again!)

Yeah, I guess there really was more to Donna - take the ending where she didn't sign on for TARDIS life. I guess it's just more of an overall impression at this point.

With Lucy picking up the Master's ring, it's possible that it's not over, yet. I don't know. There IS so much that we missed that it might touch on. I don't think it's possible that he'll just swing along, pick up a new companion and not think/talk/relive some of that year. It's just not... possible.

Yeah, that's true. We're bound to get a repeat of the Master and Lucy later on - and maybe we'll get some more details then. Ooooh. I could really dig the unexplainable Doctor-lite episode next year being a Lucy ep. OOOOH!

Yeah, Last of the Time Lords simply did not deliver on the promise of the episodes leading up to it. Pushing it further on in time did not help, I'm still not sure the one year time jump worked on BSG and I know it didn't work here. And there were so many issues raised both textually and subtextually in Utopia and Sound of Drums (not to mention the rest of the season) that were just...not dealt with at all in LotTL

The Yana subtext and the Lucy character were very interesting things to add to the story, but all the connections and implications simply vanished. I thought they spent a lot of time hitting the Master as Dark Doctor angle particularly in SoD, and the rest of the season had given us so much of the Doctor scooting towards that edge that it seemed so important. But then the Master's motivations are never really explored and the Doctor becomes Dobby and then Jesus Tinkerbelle Christ and the meaning that made sense got lost and they didn't really give us another one.

It didn't help that going into the finale I was more interested in Lucy than I was Martha because Lucy pinged for me as being an interesting character with complicated motivations and compelling viewing, while Martha was none of those things. And coming out of it...I still want to know what was going on with Lucy and don't have a great idea of what Martha did or why.

And I feel you on Donna, she wasn't exactly a one note joke character in TRB, but I kind of feel she wasn't meant to be a long term character without starting to look like a joke. That said I'm still hopeful.

Yeah, Last of the Time Lords simply did not deliver on the promise of the episodes leading up to it. Pushing it further on in time did not help, I'm still not sure the one year time jump worked on BSG and I know it didn't work here.

It's a huge cheat to do it no matter what the show. For the *most part* it worked for me in BSG, just because we got some of the blanks filled in over the next season. But you know that just won't be happening in this case.

And there were so many issues raised both textually and subtextually in Utopia and Sound of Drums (not to mention the rest of the season) that were just...not dealt with at all in LotTL

And if it was dealt with - it just wasn't that clear. I mean, is the Doctor's darkness/lack of faith in humans - something hit throughout S3 - over now because of the Tinkerbell moment? I honestly don't know.

The Yana subtext and the Lucy character were very interesting things to add to the story, but all the connections and implications simply vanished. I thought they spent a lot of time hitting the Master as Dark Doctor angle particularly in SoD, and the rest of the season had given us so much of the Doctor scooting towards that edge that it seemed so important. But then the Master's motivations are never really explored and the Doctor becomes Dobby and then Jesus Tinkerbelle Christ and the meaning that made sense got lost and they didn't really give us another one.

Yup.

It didn't help that going into the finale I was more interested in Lucy than I was Martha because Lucy pinged for me as being an interesting character with complicated motivations and compelling viewing, while Martha was none of those things. And coming out of it...I still want to know what was going on with Lucy and don't have a great idea of what Martha did or why.

They just did not seem to want to give us the "why" of characters this series, did they?

And I feel you on Donna, she wasn't exactly a one note joke character in TRB, but I kind of feel she wasn't meant to be a long term character without starting to look like a joke. That said I'm still hopeful.

I'm still fairly hopeful and am actually looking forward to some wackiness after everything in S3. I just hope I don't get tired of the wacky by episode 6 or something. Just like how S3 was all darkness and angst and I was begging for relief, I might also be begging for relief if S4 is all goofy.

For the *most part* it worked for me in BSG, just because we got some of the blanks filled in over the next season. But you know that just won't be happening in this case.

Agreed, it's mostly worked out for BSG, it happened, it mattered, it changed things. That's not really the case here, and you knew it wouldn't be, Doctor Who falls closely into urban fantasy, their world has to look largely like ours, not post apocalyptic so the only way they could show it was on the characters that remembered, and in that I felt they did a poor job; like it had been a month or two at most that they'd been living like this, they weren't fundamentally changed by the experience and they really *really* should have been.

Looking at it...I wish they'd cut out the misdirection with the professor side trip and given the time to developing the important characters and the relationships between them. It could easily have been a mystery what Martha was up to just as much without the misdirection which I never completely bought even during the episode (because well...UNIT and Torchwood have spent so much time on an anti-Time Lord gun? And then split it across the world?).

I mean, while the Jones' were plotting to kill the Master, wasn't Jack standing nearby? What did he think? When did he decide that when this was all over he didn't want to go with the Doctor? With so many disappointments about the finale, it's hard to say the way they used Jack was the worst, but it was pretty bad.

...I should probably stop ranting now.

That professor side trip - can barely even remember what that was about, other than betrayal. Oh, and I guess they needed it for the Utopian reveal.

And I don't think Jack was in the same room with the Joneses. He seemed chained up elsewhere. But you're right - we don't really know WHY Jack decided to go back to Torchwood when he'd been chasing after the Doctor for 100 years. I mean, we all know the external reason for it.

I still say this probably would have been better as a two-parter. So...a four-episode finale arc.

Oh, and I guess they needed it for the Utopian reveal.

Oh right, forgot about that, but there would have been other ways of telling the audience that if they'd chucked that side plot, I mean that is just the sort of thing to have the Master taunt the Doctor with.

And I don't think Jack was in the same room with the Joneses

I went back and looked and...I'm not sure. There's a shot of Jack at the beginning of the scene where they talk about it and the lighting/set design is similar enough that that's probably why I thought so but there is also a shot of the Doctor at the top of the discussion and I know he wasn't there, and earlier they seemed to established that Jack was under separate guard you're right. I just remember being upset by it at the time, again with the characters that I could at least have an inkling who they are but don't and ignoring the characters I do sympathize/empathize with.

Also skipping along to find that scene I was reminded, Jack might not get much to do but damn if he doesn't give good reaction shots. When the Master is Dobby-fying the Doctor, Jack actually has an emotional reaction while Martha, who this is happening because of (or at least the Master is making it about her), just looks blank. Yep that's some real love there.

I still say this probably would have been better as a two-parter. So...a four-episode finale arc.

I'm not quite sure, there was actually very little plot it seemed to me, but the finale also lacked character development. The strength of Utopia was certainly not the setting of the week plot, but in the setting up the big stuff plot and mostly in the characters. SoD was a bit more plotty, but didn't feel like falsely created plot just for stuff to do (like I feel some of the stuff in LotTL was), and the best moments were the character moments.

That said, if they had made say a mini-series out of the SoD-LotTl including the year in between plot, focusing on all these different stories until they all clicked together at the end, that would have been awesome I think.

I mean, is the Doctor's darkness/lack of faith in humans - something hit throughout S3 - over now because of the Tinkerbell moment? I honestly don't know.

The thing is, he was so up on humans during Series 2 that I don't know what suddenly happened to send him into such a 180. He's seen people be jackholes before, so I don't know why the Torchwood gang alone would be enough to cause the turnaround. I'd almost chalk it up to a coping mechanism, if it weren't for the fact that his enthusiasm for Rose seems undiminished - which would be thrown even more sharply into relief if he didn't like humans in general.

About the Tinkerbell moment: if the Doctor had that much faith in humanity, I doubt he would've felt the need to have Martha be so specific in her directions as to what the people needed to be thinking about. If he had just had Martha tell them to all go concentrate on one nonspecific thing, we'd probably have had deep-fried Master, courtesy of the human race.

katesutton did a meta on the 180 a while back () that I quite like. I think it was more that his faith in *everything* was gone after Rose got taken away.

And you're right - in the end, humans had to believe in *the Doctor,* not the other way around. The humans around him all still wanted to kill the Master. So this very well could have changed nothing. May have even increased his disconnect with them into more a god-like role.

we get no peak into the Master and Lucy other than he apparently beats her

What makes you say this?

The part about no peek (which I totally misspelled and am now changing) or the beating her part?

The no peek part - there just really wasn't much interaction between them to give a whole lot of additional insight beyond what we got in the episode before.

The beating her - she had a black eye when she came out in that one scene.

Also, I failed to mention this above and has nothing to do with what you said, but since you're here...

THE DOCTOR'S CLOTHES GREW BACK. LIKE, GREW BACK.

Obviously you couldn't have a nude Doctor standing there, but HIS CLOTHES GREW BACK.

I KNOW! I'm still a little (well...a lot) confused how it de-aged him to begin with mind you, but on top of that his clothes grew back.

Giant mound of crack.

This icon and the icon in my comment above pretty much sum up my feelings about the magically reappearing clothes in a humorous fashion.

They could've had the Doctor come back naked, and then have someone's coat hanging nearby or something that someone threw to him. Which would've been more unnerving to the Master - Tinkerbell, or an obviously very pissed Doctor stalking him across the room without even caring whether he had clothes on or not, who could still have the telekinetics needed to send the laser screwdriver flying?

They could've had the Doctor come back naked

*snerk* I imagine that Jack, at least, would've enjoyed the show. Well, at least, he's the one who'd've commented on enjoying the show. :-D

*patpat* I've since decided that, despite the Doctor's claims that all so-called "magic" is really a form of science, that whole tinkerbell thingy was clearly magic. I mean, not only did it magically transform himself into his prettier self and allow him to float, but his clothes were also magically returned to their previous condition.

The only fanwank I can suggest is that Martha gave everyone a detailed description, but that seems really silly. Er. Sillier, anyway.

HA! Um, yeah. Yeah. Floating and clothes. Yeah.

I'm more worried about how they will Donna on as a companion. The way they had her rejecting him in TRB was really good. It was a decision based on how she felt about him and I'm worried they will totally disregard that.

Oh how I now distrust RTD now. He better not screw this up more *worries*

I imagine that they'll have them running into each other on the fly during the middle of some alien disaster of some sort, she helps out, and then decides that maybe travelling with him might not be so bad. Although I really need to get around to re-watching TRB to see just how firm she was, because I don't remember at the moment.

They're gonna have to come up with something decent now, just because Donna not only said no, but gave him the reason for it - it all freaks her the hell out. So it's gonna have to be something good to get her to come along. Unless they do the classic-series trick of mucking something up where the Doctor can never quite get Donna back to her right time.

You know, I still haven't managed to work up a post about it other than that one-line thing I posted the day of. While sometimes that means that the episode was so very good that I have no words to express it (and I've already read 50 other posts that expressed it just fine, thanks), as with "Blink," in this case I find I'm still just left with "Huh."

You're right, the episodes leading up to the finale were fabulous, and then the finale just fell flat. I hate when that happens with season finales. It's so disappointing.

I agree with all you say about it, and I really hate that they had the Master abuse Lucy. I wanted her to be with him 115% to the end. In fact, I'd buy the theory of him using her as an escape clause much more easily if it weren't for that black eye.

I'm reconciled to the Boe thing, although I'm intending to ignore it until someone actually on the show says, yes, Jack will be Boe absolutely positively no ifs ands or buts. Because on the one hand I rather like that he gets to see Rose & the Doctor again, and that he dies in the Doctor's arms, but on the other... eh.

Donna - I'm just happy for someone with a totally different personality than either Martha or Rose. I didn't really come to like her at the end of TRB so much as come to not dislike her. So really? It would be very easy for the Who team to improve upon her, for me. We'll see.

You're right, the episodes leading up to the finale were fabulous, and then the finale just fell flat. I hate when that happens with season finales. It's so disappointing.

It was. The grand moment was deeply weird. And not in a good deeply weird Who way either.

I agree with all you say about it, and I really hate that they had the Master abuse Lucy. I wanted her to be with him 115% to the end. In fact, I'd buy the theory of him using her as an escape clause much more easily if it weren't for that black eye.

You know, I could *easily* see her as still being 115% with the Master, including the domestic abuse. You could say she was trapped, or you could say she was codependent. It doesn't all quite add up though - her saying "Doctor," shooting the Master and then picking up the ring at the end.

Donna - I'm just happy for someone with a totally different personality than either Martha or Rose.

Yup! I am happy for that - Donna's very different from both of them.

I agree that there could have been a lot more information provided to us in the last episode. Background on Lucy and Saxon along with a few more clips about what the characters went through during the year would have been great. Sometimes it feels like we got to read/see the first part of the story and just missed the middle portion of it.

Granted, as someone mentioned earlier, the writers could decide to go back and revisit a couple of the elements that weren't completely discussed in the last episode. Like you I would definitely like to see a storyline that looks into the beginnings of Lucy Saxon and The Master.

David's acting is amazing and so when we witness him losing the Master it was a tad bit emotional because, this time he was the last of his kind, ~~at least until RTD and co decide to bring back another timelord~~.

You know, I think I'm kinda seeing Donna as a bit of a joke at the moment – that she'll be this 24/7 wacky companion who likes to get drunk at intergalactic parties.

LOL That would be hilarious. I'm sure she'll go through some sort of character development... Well hopefully...

Sometimes it feels like we got to read/see the first part of the story and just missed the middle portion of it.

Yes! That's it exactly.

LOL That would be hilarious. I'm sure she'll go through some sort of character development... Well hopefully...

Yeah, hopefully they'll do something with her character instead of blowing it off again. But I do very much want to see them at an intergalactic kegger. :D

Yes, but Good Vibes can power tiny generators! What can't they do? ;) (okay, so I linked that purely for the "good vibes" bit, which totally made me do a double-take when I saw the article *hangs head*)

But I really would've liked to have seen more development on Lucy. I mean, she was married to him! Crazy! I remember when the Master was doing his mad jig to the Scissor Sisters, as he spun her away, she had this "Oh, you idiot, I wish I could just shoot you" look on her face, and it would've been nice to have known a bit more about her motives for the whole thing (helping the Doctor...transform, shooting her husband, picking up the ring at the end). I mean, he abuses her (for some reason?) so eventually she seizes the opportunity to off him? But why?

Also, yeah, I'm seeing Donna as a joke at the moment purely because of all the omgangst of the last series. It'll be nice as long as it doesn't go overboard...and, you know, the Doctor goes mad from all the happy and relapses into emo-ness.

Interesting discussion. The whole thing's left me feeling that Rusty might have peaked as a writer on DW - it reeked of biting off more than you can chew. I found Martha's transformation the least convincing of the lot - I mean, where did she go, who trained her, how did she become a commando legend, even silly little things like the language barrier - she can't have used the TARDIS translator, surely? And with the prisoners on the Valiant, I think the set-up was so deeply unpleasant that there was no way they could make it suitable for a family show without losing credibility.

There seems to be a bit of emotional voyeurism going on - a ramping up of angst, only to drop it when the plot makes different demands. I can understand the temptation to do that when you've got someone like Tennant heading things up, but there were several scenes in the finale where I got the feeling that he was saving the show from itself. And I got the distinct feeling that he'd have liked the final scene with Martha to have given her a bit more affirmation, but that might just be me.

It's left me rather hoping that they do call it a day after S4, because I can only see things going worse from here unless a completely new team takes over. It's called burnout, folks.

The whole thing's left me feeling that Rusty might have peaked as a writer on DW - it reeked of biting off more than you can chew.

I'm just confused by it all, because it doesn't seem like that *hard* of a fix, and I'm no professional TV writer. (Ah, gotta love that armchair TV writing. *g*) I'm starting to think that there was this "OMG, I HAVE THIS GREAT GOD THING TO DO AT THE END OF S3 THAT WILL TOTALLY TOP BAD WOLF! Oh, and the Master's in there as well. But...LONELY GOD!!!!" at the beginning, and then everything in the series was built around that moment. And nothing ever quite fit to get everyone to that moment. Okay, I take that back - the Doctor's path was the only thing that was fairly convincing to me this series.

It's left me rather hoping that they do call it a day after S4, because I can only see things going worse from here unless a completely new team takes over. It's called burnout, folks.

It sounds like RTD's out the door at the end, so I think you're safe. I just hope they don't try this grand plot again, when you don't *really* need something like that.

Yes, but Good Vibes can power tiny generators! What can't they do? ;) (okay, so I linked that purely for the "good vibes" bit, which totally made me do a double-take when I saw the article *hangs head*)

HA!!

But I really would've liked to have seen more development on Lucy. I mean, she was married to him! Crazy! I remember when the Master was doing his mad jig to the Scissor Sisters, as he spun her away, she had this "Oh, you idiot, I wish I could just shoot you" look on her face, and it would've been nice to have known a bit more about her motives for the whole thing (helping the Doctor...transform, shooting her husband, picking up the ring at the end). I mean, he abuses her (for some reason?) so eventually she seizes the opportunity to off him? But why?

Yes, why? Why why why? Did the abuse kill the relationship? I mean, I'd definitely buy that. But then you have what *seems* like Lucy picking up the ring at the end. So was it all a setup?

My problem is that they try so hard to be cryptic, which works sometimes, but other times it just winds up being confusing.

Also, yeah, I'm seeing Donna as a joke at the moment purely because of all the omgangst of the last series. It'll be nice as long as it doesn't go overboard...and, you know, the Doctor goes mad from all the happy and relapses into emo-ness.

HA!! It'll be a shock to his system!

Did the abuse kill the relationship? I mean, I'd definitely buy that. But then you have what *seems* like Lucy picking up the ring at the end. So was it all a setup?

The setup is the only thing that makes sense to me right now, considering everything that happened. That would even explain the "hey, my evil plan is working at last, so...I'm going to start abusing you now" thing. Hmm, maybe Lucy = the Master?

I would hope that we get more answers in s4, but I don't know if that's expecting too much!

HA!! It'll be a shock to his system!

Doctor: "Wait, is my life not full of loneliness and tragedy anymore? I AM SO CONFUSED. How am I supposed to know how to act now??" *licks TARDIS*

No, Lucy is not the Master. *SWATS*

And I would love to see the Doctor lick the TARDIS out of confusion. :D

OMG, but that's why everything else was all a set-up -- the Master had this failsafe all planned out so that no one would ever suspect!! Lucy was the...kind of sane one in that relationship, after all. ;)

*nods* It's the only thing that comforts him when he's feeling in over his head.

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