mrv3000 | :P

I'm reminded of a line from Harry Potter: "One person couldn't feel all that, they'd explode!" It would be a complicated headspace to try to write from, fluff-fic or no. Good luck!

That was a *cute* line. Wasn't it a Ron line, talking about everything that goes on in a girl's mind? :D

Sort of speaking of which, this article caught my eye today during lunch:

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/science/discoveries/2007-08-20-women-prefer-red_N.htm

This line in particular:

In other words, women may actually have evolved to pick up feelings and emotions given away by blushes and other physical signs, while men were out looking for a meal somewhere.

Which instantly made me think of this:

And then I told myself that not EVERYTHING needs to remind me of Doctor Who...

I think in the first season Rose was trying to keep her feet in both worlds - one foot still back on Earth with Mickey but the other foot in the TARDIS with the Doctor (and let's face it I think everyone would flirt with Jack).

It wasn't until the end of S1 where Rose made her choice and decided on putting all her eggs in the one Doctor shaped basket.

but yes, poor Doctor *pats him* I can see why he'd be all confused with the signals she was throwing around.

I think in the first season Rose was trying to keep her feet in both worlds - one foot still back on Earth with Mickey but the other foot in the TARDIS with the Doctor (and let's face it I think everyone would flirt with Jack).

It wasn't until the end of S1 where Rose made her choice and decided on putting all her eggs in the one Doctor shaped basket.

Yeah, I totally agree. I've always said that The Parting of the Ways actually had three "partings." Obviously Jack. The Doctor regenerating. But also Rose choosing to leave her old life behind once and for all.

but yes, poor Doctor *pats him* I can see why he'd be all confused with the signals she was throwing around.

Poor dude.

And I always looked at it as a young girl who found this amazing new love, but was not ready to let go of something she had for so long. I saw Rose's guilt over how she treated Mickey and I found this particular flaw very human and natural for someone her age. I also used to want to kick Mickey in the pants many times. He was older then her and had been around somewhat. Sometimes I would roll my eyes and think grow a set.

Yeah, I'd agree - there was a lot of trying to keep a foot in both worlds. Well, more trying to keep a safety net than anything else. But trying to figure out what she actually *sounds* like in her head around WWIII when briefly thinking about things...

I started writing her as clueless about the Doctor's feelings for her, which totally isn't right. She's savvy about that kind of thing, and she was able to use it against him in Father's Day. So she's NOT clueless. But then you get to The Doctor Dances where she throws out that "you know, men" line, which kinda says to me she wasn't really thinking of him in that way.

So...hmm.

You know, I wonder if she was having a bit of the same thing as the Doctor. In S1 I always get the vibe of the Doctor trying desperately not to think along those lines, because Rose was human and all. Of course, he completely failed. Maybe Rose was doing the same thing? Trying desperately not to think along those lines, because he was this 900-year-old alien? Rose was better at it than the Doctor though.

You know, I wonder if she was having a bit of the same thing as the Doctor. In S1 I always get the vibe of the Doctor trying desperately not to think along those lines, because Rose was human and all. Of course, he completely failed. Maybe Rose was doing the same thing? Trying desperately not to think along those lines, because he was this 900-year-old alien? Rose was better at it than the Doctor though.

I think this may be it. I think she also probably feels at least a little bit intimidated by all he knows and has seen, and maybe thinks there's no way that someone like that could fall for a London shopgirl. Also, alien. Who knows if his people even work that way? She probably thinks there's not a snowball's chance in hell of anything ever happening, so she's trying very hard to pretend she's not even aware of him that way.

God, they're cute. Hee.

I think this may be it. I think she also probably feels at least a little bit intimidated by all he knows and has seen, and maybe thinks there's no way that someone like that could fall for a London shopgirl. Also, alien. Who knows if his people even work that way? She probably thinks there's not a snowball's chance in hell of anything ever happening, so she's trying very hard to pretend she's not even aware of him that way.

Maybe that could be the case? Especially right after WWIII, which is where I'm trying to write this. This is pre-Dalek with the "woman you love" line (as well as releasing a *Dalek* into the world because he couldn't let Rose die again), at which point I think she'd definitely have a clue he was becoming a bit nuts about her.

But back in WWIII you really only had the mouth-drop in Unquiet Dead, the "so glad I met you" and "save the world but lose you" lines. The first two are...fluff. But that last one's a lot more intense. And you see this tiny shy whisper of a smile there with her. I think she's starting to get a clue. But maybe it was all still a bit too weird for her? And so maybe it's not so much she doesn't think the Doctor could fall for her (because it's seeming like he is) but rather she doesn't know if she wants to go there because it's WEIRD? Or...

*flails*

I just don't know what Rose is thinking right at that point in time!

Goddammit, I swear this is only about 5 lines worth of fic for all this.

God, they're cute. Hee.

They totally are.

I think Rose fell in love with the Doctor on a subconscious level in S1, so that's why her feelings seemed a little bit all over the place at times. She's out on an adventure, she likes flirting, but "dating and dancing" all seems fairly innocuous to her. What is it that she says to Mickey in Aliens of London? "He's not my boyfriend, Mickey. He's much more important than that." Which really doesn't indicate that Rose has a particularly high regard for romantic love. I've always seen her as having a lot of *fun* in S1, with the Doctor sneaking in without her realizing it. But she still put him first. Before Mickey and Adam and even Jack. By S2, I think she was ready to embrace all that love, whether it be on that close friendship level or that deeper romantic level. Kind of like the Doctor himself, actually. :D

As for Mickey, I don't think she realized how much she was stringing him along or how much more involved in the relationship he was. But she never lied to him. It's not like she ever said she'd stop traveling with the Doctor one day and settle down with him.

I kind of touched on this a bit in the one and only Nine/Rose fic I wrote. :D Sometimes I express myself better in fic than I do in meta, so I'll just copy and paste those few lines. LOOK AWAY IF YOU DON'T WANT TO READ FIC:

Sometimes while she’s sticking her tongue out at him and giggling she feels guilty. Mickey’s still back on earth, still waiting on her, and here she is, traveling through the universe with two other blokes.

But mostly she’s not thinking about Mickey. She can scarcely remember what it was like before. The world was this tiny little… thing, and there she was, stuck as a shop girl, going nowhere.

And then the Doctor came along. She doesn’t really know what to make of it; all these feelings that come from being around the Doctor. She wonders what he’d do if she pressed him—if she pushed him for more than just dancing.

Sometimes the wondering keeps her up at night.

Nineteen-year-old shop girl, she reminds herself. Nine-hundred-year-old alien whose planet is gone. It’s not like that between them. It’s stronger than that.

I think Rose fell in love with the Doctor on a subconscious level in S1, so that's why her feelings seemed a little bit all over the place at times. She's out on an adventure, she likes flirting, but "dating and dancing" all seems fairly innocuous to her. What is it that she says to Mickey in Aliens of London? "He's not my boyfriend, Mickey. He's much more important than that."

Hmm. Yeah. Could be that she had him off in this whole other realm.

Which really doesn't indicate that Rose has a particularly high regard for romantic love.

Well, and it could be that Rose has only ever had the Mickey kinds of boyfriends in her life before. The more nice-guy comfortable kind of relationship. What was developing with the Doctor was probably completely new to her, and the only way she knew how to express that was that he was *not* her boyfriend (i.e., Mickey).

I've always seen her as having a lot of *fun* in S1, with the Doctor sneaking in without her realizing it. But she still put him first. Before Mickey and Adam and even Jack. By S2, I think she was ready to embrace all that love, whether it be on that close friendship level or that deeper romantic level. Kind of like the Doctor himself, actually. :D

Could very well be. Awwww.

As for Mickey, I don't think she realized how much she was stringing him along or how much more involved in the relationship he was. But she never lied to him. It's not like she ever said she'd stop traveling with the Doctor one day and settle down with him.

No, I don't really think she maliciously stringed him along either. Thoughtlessly, is another matter.

I kind of touched on this a bit in the one and only Nine/Rose fic I wrote.

That's lovely.

Well, and it could be that Rose has only ever had the Mickey kinds of boyfriends in her life before. The more nice-guy comfortable kind of relationship

What about Jimmy Stones? I definitely don't think he fits that bill.

Okay, that was probably not a very good way to put that - the nice-guy comfortable thing, which Mickey is. What I was trying to go for was that there's love and then there's Love. Rose loves Mickey, but she Loves the Doctor. And I'm doing a really bad job of trying to get down the difference. :D

Gotcha. I hope I didn't come off snappish. I think this is an interesting topic you have going, and I was trying to help puzzle through it. The reason I brought up Jimmy Stones was because you guys were talking about why Rose didn't hold romantic love in very high regard. It seems like part of the reason might have to do with her bad experience with Jimmy.

Oh no. And it really wasn't a good way to put it since sounds like Rose has had at least one boyfriend who wasn't the greatest influence in her past.

And there really might be something to that not necessarily holding romantic love in high regard. Rose has grown up watching Jackie having a rotating list of men in her life. Could well be a source of her abandonment issue with the Doctor, since all she's seen growing up is that men leave. It's what they do.

YAIY! Neurosis!

Woo hoo!! :D

Let's not forget, too, that Mickey's not entirely innocent in the bust-up in "Boom Town", either. The Doctor *offered* him a place on the TARDIS in WWIII, but Mickey not only turned it down, he asked the Doctor to cover for him. He also chose to be at Rose's beck and call, or at least allowed it. And then he gets disgruntled when she tells him about all these amazing adventures she's having.

This isn't to minimize Rose's fault in all this, but really, they both had a choice in the matter. Mickey could've broken it off as well, but like Rose, he wanted it both ways. He wanted to keep Rose *and* his life on Earth; she wanted to keep Mickey *and* her life with the Doctor. Something had to give.

Let's not forget, too, that Mickey's not entirely innocent in the bust-up in "Boom Town", either. The Doctor *offered* him a place on the TARDIS in WWIII, but Mickey not only turned it down, he asked the Doctor to cover for him. He also chose to be at Rose's beck and call, or at least allowed it. And then he gets disgruntled when she tells him about all these amazing adventures she's having.

Oh, *totally*. That was one thing that really bugged me about him during S1. (And why I was "nooooooo! this was OVER!" when TCI aired and Mickey was *still* moping over Rose when I thought he'd finally gotten a clue in TPotW.)

This isn't to minimize Rose's fault in all this, but really, they both had a choice in the matter. Mickey could've broken it off as well, but like Rose, he wanted it both ways. He wanted to keep Rose *and* his life on Earth; she wanted to keep Mickey *and* her life with the Doctor. Something had to give.

Absolutely. A lot of times I want to credit the Doctor with letting Mickey along in School Reunion (when Rose was mouthing "no" to him), as the Doctor wanting to push for some sort of resolution since the Mickey thing was always hanging over them. Even at the beginning of the episode, the Doctor's still calling Mickey Rose's boyfriend, sort of in jest, but sort of not. But I'm not sure if the Doctor is that relationship-savvy.

I mean, I always interpreted her thing with Mickey as pretty standard open relationship drama: she's all "We should be free to do what we like, and also there for each other", but Mickey's not happy with it and aware that if he tells her he might lose her once and for all, and meanwhile Rose is not aware that she's being one-sided about it and is actually claiming the right to not be monogamist for herself while she's still getting jealous over what he does (vis a vis Boom Town).

I've seen this kind of thing go down in real life - thank god not mine - and, yep, that's pretty much what it looks like. People wandering along going "la la la, I have evolved past jealousy, dur dur dur" and then whap with the angst stick.

Oh, totally totally. As much as I'd sometimes cringe and want to shake Rose or Mickey (or both) depending on the scene, it really rang true. People get involved in relationship drama like this, and when you're in the middle of it you can't really see things very logically. And overall, I do appreciate that Rose wasn't this virginal cherub, sitting around waiting for some white knight to take her off on his blue horse. She's a very real person with real foibles and a real life.

I think this is where people get the 'Rose is immature' ideas. Because she has left Mickey, is 'available', yet when he mentions that he's going with Trisha Delaney*, she gets upset. I think that they believe that Rose only wants Mickey now that he's not only hers.

I think that it's still a shock for Rose to remember that life goes on while she travels. She left for a year and nothing really changed. Her mother and Mickey were still waiting for her. But now as she travels, the world is still moving without her. Jackie's got a new beau, Mickey's got a new girl. Slitheen are running for office. So her stable world is leaving her behind instead of waiting in stasis for her to return. She later accepts this and in the end would rather the adventures and the missing out on the 'long path' that changes while she's gone.

*Poor Trisha, you are the uber!Mickey, always second string to Rose and he TOTALLY would have cheated on her with Rose if they had got that hotel room.

Yeah, I completely agree. She kinda has this notion for a while that life *is* on hold for her until she gets back. And where I think that finally turns for her is in TPotW. And by AoG, I really get the vibe of Rose (and the Doctor) going for a *visit* to Jackie. She's there to throw her laundry at her mother and catch up, but it's not really her getting back to her old life. I really think by that point she was thinking of the TARDIS life *as* her life.

There have been a lot of good points raised about this already, so I'm probably just restating other points.

But I get the impression that Rose and Mickey had pretty much always been in each other's lives in one form or another and I think that made it hard for them to hammer out the details of where their relationship was at but easy to assume it would always be there. I think the psychic paper calling him her sort of boyfriend was about right, she didn't know where they stood but he kind of was still her boyfriend since they'd never exactly broken up.

Also, Mickey never really seems to be at the forefront of Rose's mind. Like in Aliens of London, she's been back for several hours by the time Mickey comes over, and it's not as if she'd gone over there, or apparently asked Jackie how Mickey was, otherwise she might have known the situation before he came in.

It's compounded by the fact that I think at least part of Rose did think it would be "just ten seconds" probably not exactly, but a short enough time that she wasn't stringing him along for months while she was off gallivanting around the universe. She didn't think about what would happen if they got it wrong by a year again, she wasn't exactly prone to making allowances for unexpected consequences. In Boom Town when she realized what was happening, she *was* keeping him on hold with no guarantees when or if she would come home much less what sort of relationship they might have if she did, she realized he deserved better

But I get the impression that Rose and Mickey had pretty much always been in each other's lives in one form or another and I think that made it hard for them to hammer out the details of where their relationship was at but easy to assume it would always be there.

Yeah - he's always been a friend of the family it would seem since he was running around in Father's Day.

In Boom Town when she realized what was happening, she *was* keeping him on hold with no guarantees when or if she would come home much less what sort of relationship they might have if she did, she realized he deserved better

Yeah, true enough. I guess another way of looking at it is that Boom Town was the warm-up for AoS. These two people have a *long* history with each other, and while they both seem to know that it's not going to work between them, it's extremely hard to let go of that. For either of them.

:P

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