DW question, surprisingly enough not about D/R (WOW!)

[mrv3000]

Was just thinking about this. And yes, random thoughts tend to make their way to LJ. So, I think it's pretty much Generally Accepted Who (aka fanon) that the regeneration from Eight to Nine happened during the Time War. Whatever it was that the Doctor did to end it all (which is canon - he pushed the button, so to speak, per Sound of Drums) was so catastrophic, that it caused him to regenerate.

But...has it actually ever been *said* in canon that he regenerated due to this specific event? Did they say something in Sound of Drums/LotTL that I'm forgetting? I think I always have it in my mind that Eight was the one to go through the Time War. Could it have been Nine instead? Possibly due to an early battle in the Time War? (He mentioned he fought on the front line.) Or maybe even something that happened before the Time War?

This isn't for some kind of fic or anything. I'm just kinda curious at the moment.

ETA: WOW. I totally need to watch S1 again. In "Rose" he's checking out his ears, so it had to have just happened.

And this makes for my second moronic post this week...

*headdesk*

ETA2: And...you could still question the whole "regeneration due to Time War" thing in a way I hadn't thought of. Nifty!

Comments

[honorh.livejournal.com]

There's actually no canon as to when exactly the Doctor changed from Eight to Nine. However, in the episode "Rose", he looks at a mirror and comments that "It could have been worse" and mutters something about his ears--like he was looking at that face for the first time, or at least that he hadn't been wearing it long enough to be completely used to it. That would seem to suggest that he transitioned to Nine relatively recently, either late in the Time War or sometime after.

[principia-coh.livejournal.com]

Yep, he's checking out his ears, but that doesn't necessarily mean he is or isn't fresh from the Time War. I personally think it leans against it having happened right at that moment...

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...and in my fic, it's specifically mentioned as not being the case, although said mention doesn't have oodles of bearing on the story.

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

I'd just edited my post about the mirror thing. Heh. I'm a dork.

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

You'd think that *too* much time couldn't have passed if he'd not been able to check himself out in a mirror yet.

(Which...kinda doesn't jive with the non-Eight clothes, but... *handwaves*)

[principia-coh.livejournal.com]

Not too much time had passed since he'd regenerated. There are no clear indicators given that he regenerated as a direct result of the then-final act of the Time War.

[principia-coh.livejournal.com]

If we're taking votes, I'd say some time after... possibly well after.

[honorh.livejournal.com]

As people have noted, though, his clothes are very simple as Nine. They're things he could just throw on. It's entirely possible he just hadn't bothered to seek out a mirror--Nine is a good deal less physically vain than Eight or Ten.

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

*clings to the small thread of my post not being completely pointless*

So you subscribe to the notion it was a post-Time War regeneration? Interesting!

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

Makes me wonder if he randomly stole picked them up somewhere, like Three or Eight.

[honorh.livejournal.com]

The reason I like the idea that he regenerated as a result of whatever he did to end the Time War is that it gives Nine's series such lovely symmetry. He's forced into an act of genocide which kicks off his ninth incarnation--and we know, thanks to LotTL that he had to make that decision to live--but at the end of that life, he can't commit genocide again. Instead, he dies for love after the Time War's last battle is fought. See? It's pretty!

That said, if it's revealed that Eight survived the Time War and died or purposely regenerated later (which would be a cool idea to play with), I won't be devastated. It's just a pet fanon.

[honorh.livejournal.com]

Given those two, he'd have stolen something velvet and frilly.

[principia-coh.livejournal.com]

Given some of the other indicators in the episode and the next few that he's had time to find out what's happened to at least some of the major species that got swept up in the war, that leads me to strongly believe that enough time has to have passed for him to a) get his sh*t together enough to be traveling again, and b) have been going around and finding out most of this information for himself.

[principia-coh.livejournal.com]

If the jumper he wore didn't change from ep to ep, I might agree with the stolen theory. It's more likely stuff he had sitting around the TARDIS - heck, it might even be leftovers from a former male companion.

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

That is a *very* nifty incarnation arc, isn't it? It wouldn't surprise me if they'd someday canonize the regeneration at the end of the Time War, just for that very reason.

But I think like you I wouldn't totally upset if they did something different.

[honorh.livejournal.com]

My pet fanon is that he took the leather coat off of Fitz/whatever male companion was aboard at the time of his death. Someone else--oh, I've got to find that story--had him take it off an OC, while in "Coming Around", I wrote him as "inheriting" it from Fitz. Another author had Fitz give him the coat before the Doctor went into battle.

[principia-coh.livejournal.com]

I suspect that the only way we may see this question resolved is if there's a multi-era story involving Paul McGann. Possibly as one of the 2009 specials, if not series 5 (I assume not Series 4, 'cos no-one at the Beeb seems to be capable of keeping that tight a lid on things).

*bats eyes at RTD*

Pretty please? Pretty please with sugar on?

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

*pictures Nine in something velvet and frilly*

*amused*

[principia-coh.livejournal.com]

I suspect that the Doctor would've dropped off Fitz (or whomever) before heading into such a battle, so I would cotton more to the 'inherited' (by which I take you mean 'borrowed'? ;) ) or gifted origins of the coat.

[principia-coh.livejournal.com]

The Edwardian getup from the Titanic picture was odd enough...

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

Yes, please! They could even remove it from the normal New Who stuff - make it a mini-series! Doctor Who: The Time War. What's not to love??!

[honorh.livejournal.com]

No--in "Coming Around", the TARDIS crashes through a few dimensional barriers right into Bad Wolf Bay a year after "Doomsday", and Rose is there to hold the Doctor's hand as he regenerates. She also discovers Fitz's body, and the Doctor explains that Fitz refused to leave him. Rose is the one who takes the leather jacket off Fitz's body and offers it to the Doctor, who eventually accepts it.

My fic, let me show you it.

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

It definitely doesn't feel like the Time War ended 5 seconds prior to "Rose" and he just stumbled out of the TARIDS, that's for sure. He always seems to me to be in clean-up mode in "Rose" since the Nestene Consciousness was displaced due to the Time War.

[honorh.livejournal.com]

Yes. Pleeeeeease? And while you're at it, pay Eccles whatever it takes, up to and including a wide selection of whores (I know of a few volunteers for the position) to get him in as Nine, however briefly.

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

Tell me about it. :D

[pixiesio.livejournal.com]

*drools over your icon*