(no subject)

[mrv3000]

The Good

• Donna as Super Temp. Now that I've got the character flaw-type stuff (thanks to stuff from last week), I can sit back and enjoy her awesome Temping powers. :D (I seriously do need more depth to a character than "Awesome" for me to like them. Pure "Awesome" without anything else tends to make me twitchy.)
  
  
• The Doctor explaining why he couldn't do the family thing again. It was interesting knowing that to him at the moment, family equals loss. And it's easier to see why he doesn't get involved with anyone's families as a rule. I think Donna was dead-on in saying he was wrong about it, since if Jenny had gone with them it really would have been like Donna said: "It won't always be like this." Meaning, he wouldn't have always looked into her eyes and seen loss. (It's called healing, Doctor. Maybe you'll be allowed that one day.)
  
  
• The Doctor slowly getting attached to Jenny. It was very well played - starting as mistrust/distance/distaste to acceptance/attachment, although you knew it meant certain doom. (This episode? Very predictable.)
  
  
• A plot element was straight out of classic Who - the whole thing with a ship coming to a planet and life starting anew, sometimes with facts being altered or history even forgotten. They did that one a lot (it even resulted in companions like Leela and Adric.) I was amused.
  
  
• Jenny herself. For the most part I liked her. I am SO glad they skipped stuff like "What is this? A shoe? And what I'm feeling? It means I have to pee?" That gets old really fast.

The Bad

• The very ending with Jenny coming back to life was not only extremely predictable, I was rolling my eyes a bit. I liked her for the most part, but there was something about the ending where she was a bit too "Tralalala! I'm outta here to save the universe go traveling!" Okay... *waves*
  
  
• The Doctor got YET ANOTHER kick to the groin. Here, Doctor! Let's instantly give you a daughter, have you start to get attached, AND THEN TAKE HER AWAY FROM YOU SO YOU RELIVE YOUR ENTIRE FAMILY'S HORRIBLE HORRIBLE DEATH! MWAHAHAHAHAHA! Like...is the Doctor ever allowed to have more than 5 minutes of happiness? No? Really? Hopefully Donna never decides to get a dog, because the second the Doctor would get attached, IT'D DIE A HORRIBLE HORRIBLE DEATH JUST LIKE HIS FORMER TIME DOG.
  
  
• I said "HUH?" practically nonstop through the last half of the episode.
  
  
  • So no one has been alive for more than 7 days? Seriously? Surely someone could have fought the odds and lived that long. No?
    
    
  • What about the original crew? They really all were killed? Fighting got that bad in 7 days? Seriously?
    
    
  • How did they manage to lose all that information in 7 days??
    
    
  • And where were these robots building the tunnels? (You know, they sure grunged-out the place in a couple of days. They're as bad as a rock band with a hotel room.)
    
    
  • And Jenny didn't regenerate because "she's too much like [the Doctor] me?" Uh...Jenny had a death wish? Exactly how does that statement make sense? It's like I know those were words coming out of the Doctor's mouth, but the TARDIS translation was on the blink. (Side note - what was up with the bubbling instead of talking? And Martha understood? Why couldn't the audience? What up?)
    
    
  • The Doctor's spent the night in a morgue before regenerating once. He was actually dead and everything. You'd think he'd give Jenny a bit of time before taking off. "You know, my cousin once took 2 days. Probably should stick around for a bit. Cards, anyone?"
    
    
  • Why the hell didn't Jenny regenerate? Don't be doing that glowy regeneration mouth stuff without actual regeneration. :P I thought this was the way Time Lords cheated death. They don't get to choose to regenerate or not. You die, you regenerate. Or else you...die. Did they simply want to keep the actress? But that's cheating! (She's going to have her own spinoff show, isn't she? I know it.)
  
  
• The story was very predictable. No surprises, really.

In spite of my long list of bad (which really was a lot of parasailing through the typical DW plot holes), I enjoyed this episode. It could have been a nightmare with the whole Jenny thing, but I thought they did a pretty good job with it. Got some really nice moments with the Doctor along the way. The ending was a little too over-the-top for me - plus you knew she wouldn't actually die. But still. Enjoyable.

Plus little bit of Donna mindset at the end, about staying with the Doctor forever. Ooh boy. Last person that said that got sucked into a parallel world. (Because the Doctor isn't allowed to have nice things.)

Finally, I am REALLY excited about next week's episode because AGATHA CHRISTIE!! \o/ My bar is high for this one, and I expect awesome things! Gimme.

Comments

[morgaine-nicely.livejournal.com]

Yeah, in the beginning i didn't plan to or want to like Jenny, thought they'd make her a baddy or something. Then once he accepted her and got that cute grin and was so happy to see her (like when she did the gymnastics thru the lasers). I am getting REALLY REALLY REALLY pissed off at TPTB about giving the doctor something happy, (i.e. Rose, Astrid, pretty much everything)
and now Donna saying she's gonna stay forever...yeah, well we now know Donna's prolly not gonna be around. Great, thanks Rusty. Thanks a bunch. Thanks so much for series 2 and all the happy and then all the emo!doctor since. /rant
I kinda was happy that she came back and took off at the end, she's got a cute smile that reminds me of the doctor :) I figure we'll see her next year in the specials.

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

Yeah, in the beginning i didn't plan to or want to like Jenny, thought they'd make her a baddy or something.

They could have kept her as a soldier, but then it wouldn't have really resulted in any beloved angst.

I am getting REALLY REALLY REALLY pissed off at TPTB about giving the doctor something happy, (i.e. Rose, Astrid, pretty much everything)
and now Donna saying she's gonna stay forever...yeah, well we now know Donna's prolly not gonna be around. Great, thanks Rusty. Thanks a bunch. Thanks so much for series 2 and all the happy and then all the emo!doctor since. /rant

I know! Lure us in with this happy fun time travel show, and then proceed to beat the hell out of the main character.

I kinda was happy that she came back and took off at the end, she's got a cute smile that reminds me of the doctor :) I figure we'll see her next year in the specials.

Oh, probably. That'd be all right, I guess.

[bittybye2000.livejournal.com]

I found the entire episode lacking. I think I wanted more Martha/Doctor interaction but Martha seemed to be kind of just there.

I loved that Donna was actually paying attention the the numbers while the Doctor was trying to convince himself that Jenny wasn't anything important.

Jenny annoyed me. When she wasn't kicking butt she was too...hyper. Too perky and cheerful and something I can't quite put my finger on. Yes I was spoiled and knew she was going to die and I'm a tad ashamed to say that at least 50% of the time I was thinking "Dose she die *yet*?"

I think they should rename the show "How to Crush One Man's Will to Live"

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

I found the entire episode lacking. I think I wanted more Martha/Doctor interaction but Martha seemed to be kind of just there.

She really was just kinda there, wasn't she? Basically they used her to show the Hath side of things.

I loved that Donna was actually paying attention the the numbers while the Doctor was trying to convince himself that Jenny wasn't anything important.

I did like that whole dynamic going on.

Jenny annoyed me. When she wasn't kicking butt she was too...hyper. Too perky and cheerful and something I can't quite put my finger on. Yes I was spoiled and knew she was going to die and I'm a tad ashamed to say that at least 50% of the time I was thinking "Dose she die *yet*?"

HA!! The only time she got up to that "too perky" level for me was at the very end, thank goodness. Otherwise I wouldn't have liked the episode as much.

I think they should rename the show "How to Crush One Man's Will to Live"

I thought they already had.

[javabreeze.livejournal.com]

This episode really had a lot of hits and misses. I'm a bit surprised that it's that easy to clone the Doctor and make "shiny new semi-Time Lord but not really Time Lord" people. I thought it would have been a bit more difficult and complex than that then simply sticking your hand in a machine and having an insta-child. On second thought, maybe the mechanics of that are complex but to have used it on Time Lord DNA, it just seemed to me it would be more difficult to clone. Sigh. I shouldn't try to make sense of Doctor Who science.

And it must be horrible of me to say this, but I kinda of wish that Jenny stayed dead. I did like her but it seems rather odd that she's only in one episode and then never to be heard from again unless they plan on using her for the specials or as a full-time companion in series 5. To me, that seems likely.

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

Sigh. I shouldn't try to make sense of Doctor Who science.

You'll just hurt yourself. You really will. :D

And it must be horrible of me to say this, but I kinda of wish that Jenny stayed dead. I did like her but it seems rather odd that she's only in one episode and then never to be heard from again unless they plan on using her for the specials or as a full-time companion in series 5. To me, that seems likely.

Oh, I'm sure she'll be back. Otherwise they wouldn't have gone this route. Or at the very least, wanted to keep that door wide open.

[chloris67.livejournal.com]

The plot was terribly predictable, but I still loved it. Tennant just nailed his performance!

Like...is the Doctor ever allowed to have more than 5 minutes of happiness? No? Really? Hopefully Donna never decides to get a dog, because the second the Doctor would get attached, IT'D DIE A HORRIBLE HORRIBLE DEATH JUST LIKE HIS FORMER TIME DOG.

This is SO true! Lately, he's never allowed to be happy. That's why I'm dreading his reunion with Rose.

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

Tennant just nailed his performance!

There really were some great moments.

This is SO true! Lately, he's never allowed to be happy. That's why I'm dreading his reunion with Rose.

*SIGHS*

[shadowkitten87.livejournal.com]

I read a comment somewhere (I think it was to goldydollar's post that the reason Jenny didn't actually regenerate was because she had just been born, and was technically within the first 15 hours of her regeneration cycle. I mean, that makes as much sense as anything else, right?

At first I didn't really like Jenny, but all my friends did and they're usually very critical of characters so I decided to give her another chance. She's hardly my favorite character, but the urge to conform has made me decide that she's a bit of a cutie at certain parts.

Also, I don't understand how the general was old and didn't remember? I heard that he was supporting the war for his own personal gain, but I don't see what that could be and I think if it were the case the show would have been more obvious about it. Subtlety is not one of DW's qualities.

[fauxkaren.livejournal.com]

I'm explaining away the not regeneration!regeneration by saying it's like when the Doctor grew back his hand. It was withing the first however many hours of his regeneration cycle or whatever. So... maybe because she was just born (sort of like a regeneration), she could just come back to life after dieing? That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

[kitsune17.livejournal.com]

::nods::

I'm using this story too.

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

Ah. Okay. :D

[claidissa.livejournal.com]

Please explain the Donna character flaws to me, 'cause I need some and I got none (besides...crying...sometimes.) :\

I think the "too much like me" bit was referring to her taking a bullet for the Doctor and being self-sacrificing, not in a biological "she's gonna regenerate" sense.

I'm not quite sure why they just up and left, taking Martha's word as the end-all-be-all about Time Lord biology (???) but I think the whole exhaling thing was supposed to be taken as Jenny's body healing itself after her first 15 hours or so of being born/regenerating, but instead just ended up confusing everyone.

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

Please explain the Donna character flaws to me, 'cause I need some and I got none (besides...crying...sometimes.) :\

For all her bluster and guts, she lacks a lot of self-worth. The Doctor had to yell at her for putting herself down. And I think that has a lot to do with her forever searching for the Doctor. And then traveling with him. Sure it's amazing and wonderful, but she doesn't seem to find any worth in life back home, and makes me wonder just how much she does believe in herself.

It's enough for me to grab onto, and hopefully they'll arc it out with Donna finding that self-worth.

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

Oh! I knew there was another Donna flaw, but I just couldn't think of it when I was typing the other comment.

She tends to not be able to see the bigger picture. Like, even after she's presented with it. Like Pompeii or even with Jenny. The Doctor was telling her the reasons why he didn't want to get attached and this whole big history with him. But she pushed on anyway.

You could argue that the Doctor needed to be pushed with Jenny, although considering the outcome, it might have been better if he'd been able to take things at his own pace.

That's one thing about this particular Donna flaw - she's always very well intentioned about it. But things can get messy because of her single-mindedness.

[svanderslice.livejournal.com]

I don't think the "she's too much like me" line had anything to do with her lack of regeneration. I think it had to do with her stepping in front of the bullet. It's something the Doctor would have done. That's what killed her, being too much like him.

As for why she didn't regenerate, I have no idea, I'm sure they'll come up with an explanation sooner. Right now there are two main theories as to why she came back to life. 1_ being that she was terraformed back to life. (Just like Spock in Star Trek III). 2_ is that she had enough power in her from just being created that she healed instantly, like the Doctor did by growing back a hand in The Christmas Invasion. Honestly I think either explanation is very possible.

And I loved the Doctor talking about his family. It is so nice to see him starting to heal. I am starting to think that the whole, "writers keep kicking him in the groin" thing is starting to get old. The man needs some happiness. The classic series survived three decades on the Doctor being mostly happy, so I think allowing our Doctor just a teensy bit more isn't asking too much.

I'd really like to see Jenny come back as a full time companion. She'd add a completely different element to the show, and the Doctor's personality. It would be so much fun to have another Time Lord around too.

And for once, I REALLY liked Martha in an episode. I know it isn't a popular opinion, I've heard that most people think the crying bit was overacted, but I think its the first time we've seen some really strong emotions from Martha. I think it rounded her character a bit.


Anyway, I agree that the episode was pretty predictable, but I like romance novels, so predictable doesn't bother me. I enjoyed it anyway.

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

I don't think the "she's too much like me" line had anything to do with her lack of regeneration. I think it had to do with her stepping in front of the bullet. It's something the Doctor would have done. That's what killed her, being too much like him.

Oh, is that what the line was about? You're probably right.

I still want to know why the Doctor didn't wait then. He has had a long period where he was dead before he regenerated.

1_ being that she was terraformed back to life. (Just like Spock in Star Trek III). 2_ is that she had enough power in her from just being created that she healed instantly, like the Doctor did by growing back a hand in The Christmas Invasion.

Oh, the terraform thing! Huh. Yeah, I guess in the cracky world of DW either of those is plausible.

And I loved the Doctor talking about his family. It is so nice to see him starting to heal.

Although like katesutton pointed out, this whole thing could be another negative conditioning experience. The Doctor dares to open up and BAM. Sledgehammer to the face. You'd almost think it would wind up making him more withdrawn.

The classic series survived three decades on the Doctor being mostly happy, so I think allowing our Doctor just a teensy bit more isn't asking too much.

You'd hope not.

I know it isn't a popular opinion, I've heard that most people think the crying bit was overacted, but I think its the first time we've seen some really strong emotions from Martha.

That scene wasn't really a big positive or a big negative for me for some reason.

[beck-liz.livejournal.com]

I enjoyed this episode a lot. Mostly by turning my brain off while I was watching it, or rather, focusing mostly on the Doctor's emotional journey and what Donna was doing. If I'd attempted to focus on the "plot," I imagine I would've disliked it intensely, as some have.

If you look at one of my posts from last night, the 7 days thing messed with my head, too. It just doesn't make any sense. I can usually ignore or handwave stuff like that, but this just bugs me.

And Jenny didn't regenerate because "she's too much like [the Doctor] me?" Uh...Jenny had a death wish? Exactly how does that statement make sense? It's like I know those were words coming out of the Doctor's mouth, but the TARDIS translation was on the blink.

I thought at the time that he meant she was like him in that she died to save someone's life, or something along those lines, but you're right that it doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

(Side note - what was up with the bubbling instead of talking? And Martha understood? Why couldn't the audience? What up?)

No clue. Weird thing; was watching the Confidential, and they showed the scene where Martha gets stuck in the muck, and they actually had someone off to the side shouting what the Hath was apparently supposed to be saying. But then we never actually got to hear that in the episode. Weirdness.

Plus little bit of Donna mindset at the end, about staying with the Doctor forever. Ooh boy. Last person that said that got sucked into a parallel world.

Although I have to say that I now think my theory about how Donna leaves no longer works. She seemed too cheerful/certain about the "forever" thing to be fatally ill. That still leaves plenty of other options, though. *gulp*

(Because the Doctor isn't allowed to have nice things.)

Poor Doctor. *pets him* Why can't he keep someone????

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

I enjoyed this episode a lot. Mostly by turning my brain off while I was watching it, or rather, focusing mostly on the Doctor's emotional journey and what Donna was doing. If I'd attempted to focus on the "plot," I imagine I would've disliked it intensely, as some have.

That really was what there was to love about this episode - the character interactions. The plot was cheesetastic classic Who material.

If you look at one of my posts from last night, the 7 days thing messed with my head, too. It just doesn't make any sense. I can usually ignore or handwave stuff like that, but this just bugs me.

I started reading backwards on the flist, but got crosseyed from how much I missed.

Anyway, it really does bug me too. They absolutely did NOT need that element to it. Who cares if it was 7 days, 7 years or 7 centuries? And you just wind up with having to believe that no one lived more than a day. Maybe two. WTH?

I thought at the time that he meant she was like him in that she died to save someone's life, or something along those lines, but you're right that it doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

Especially since they were talking about her regenerating. That whole thing does kinda bug me too.

No clue. Weird thing; was watching the Confidential, and they showed the scene where Martha gets stuck in the muck, and they actually had someone off to the side shouting what the Hath was apparently supposed to be saying. But then we never actually got to hear that in the episode. Weirdness.

M'kay...

Although I have to say that I now think my theory about how Donna leaves no longer works. She seemed too cheerful/certain about the "forever" thing to be fatally ill. That still leaves plenty of other options, though. *gulp*

Yeah, I kinda had my doubts about that one.

Poor Doctor. *pets him* Why can't he keep someone????

Because he is The Lonely God^TM. (Lonely God Blue Suit sold separately.)

(It makes me think of the only Sally Sparrow line I loathed: "[Sadness is] happy for deep people." Lord.)

[velvet4269.livejournal.com]

I was pleasantly surprised that I enjoyed this episode - faults and all. I have to admit, I LOL'd when I saw the Doctor's Distraction, though ;)

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

I know - I didn't expect to really like it either. And especially for how many gaping plot holes it had. :D

(The mouse cracked me up.)

[goldy-dollar.livejournal.com]

Stop sharing my brain! It gets so creepy!

The Doctor slowly getting attached to Jenny. It was very well played - starting as mistrust/distance/distaste to acceptance/attachment, although you knew it meant certain doom. (This episode? Very predictable.)

You know, it's kind of getting to the point where I don't WANT the Doctor to form anymore meaningful bonds with anyone because it'll only end up going wrong and HURTING HIM.

I, er. Don't think that's what I'm supposed to think. *pets self*

Jenny herself. For the most part I liked her.

I liked her, too! Insta!children are often bratty and resentful, so I'm glad that she wasn't. Sometimes this show surprises me.

What about the original crew? They really all were killed? Fighting got that bad in 7 days? Seriously?

Yeah. I'm telling myself that maybe Donna got the date wrong after all. Otherwise... what the hell?

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

Stop sharing my brain! It gets so creepy!

HA! I haven't made it back to your post yet. I'm guessing we had the same reactions. :D

You know, it's kind of getting to the point where I don't WANT the Doctor to form anymore meaningful bonds with anyone because it'll only end up going wrong and HURTING HIM.

Tell me about it. "Doctor, no! Don't pet the cockroach! IT WILL END BADLY!"

I, er. Don't think that's what I'm supposed to think. *pets self*

Well if you're thinking that, you gotta wonder what the Doctor's thinking. "Let's see. Any time I try to form a meaningful bond, it all goes to hell. Um...my next companion shall be this wind-up mouse! Yes!" And then he loses the key to the mouse and spends the next 2 years curled up in a ball.

I liked her, too! Insta!children are often bratty and resentful, so I'm glad that she wasn't. Sometimes this show surprises me.

*nods* I liked the fact that they didn't go the cliched "rebellious teen" route. Bleh.

Yeah. I'm telling myself that maybe Donna got the date wrong after all. Otherwise... what the hell?

HA!!

Donna: Oh, hold on. This is centuries, not days!

Doctor: *is too busy sobbing over old family photos to care*

[unfolded73.livejournal.com]

Agreed agreed agreed. You hit on a lot of the really good points. Especially this:

The Doctor slowly getting attached to Jenny. It was very well played - starting as mistrust/distance/distaste to acceptance/attachment, although you knew it meant certain doom.

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

That was probably the thing I liked the most about this episode. With the compressed amount of time, I think they pulled off a very natural-feeling reaction and progression when it came to the Doctor with Jenny.

[katesutton.livejournal.com]

It's called healing, Doctor. Maybe you'll be allowed that one day.

But this won't WORK if the writers won't give the Doctor a break! Come ON, guys! It's really...I dunno, pointless? counterintuitive? to encourage the Doctor to not be an emotional cripple if you HAMSTRING HIM every single frickin' time he listens to that voice telling him to LIVE! LOVE! Ahem. It's possible I'm beginning to have Issues on this matter. Possible.

Oh and Donna saying she'd stay forever? Kinda weird. I just don't see her as that person, as someone who really wants to stay. I think she's having a ball, but doing this forever? Hmm. Surprised me.

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

But this won't WORK if the writers won't give the Doctor a break! Come ON, guys! It's really...I dunno, pointless? counterintuitive? to encourage the Doctor to not be an emotional cripple if you HAMSTRING HIM every single frickin' time he listens to that voice telling him to LIVE! LOVE! Ahem. It's possible I'm beginning to have Issues on this matter. Possible.

I know. He's seriously knocked down every single time, and...is there a point? The Doctor really is that one-dimensional superhero cutout, and needs to learn to live with it? Or is it some sort of Pavlovian-esque way of beating the personal nature out of him?

Oh and Donna saying she'd stay forever? Kinda weird. I just don't see her as that person, as someone who really wants to stay. I think she's having a ball, but doing this forever? Hmm. Surprised me.

I'm still sticking with the notion that the Doctor is Donna's worth in life, and she doesn't really find any worth in herself on her own. She's got a purpose when she's with him.

I really would like for her to find her own worth, though.

I also would like for her to wear a hat from her hat box. *waits*

[sunnytyler001.livejournal.com]

The Doctor needs his Rose. NOW.

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

Amen!

[makesometime.livejournal.com]

Eee, I can't wait til next week! My Agatha Christie glee is outweighing my ability to add to the episode discussion in any way.

And I just love the actress playing her.

Eeee!

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

The preview looked really good! (Blah blah blah wasps and unicorns. There shall be crack.) But Agatha Christie and a mystery! WOO!

[velvet4269.livejournal.com]

And the one thing that keeps going through my head with all this: just wait until The Master gets his hands on this machine.

Cus you know it will happen, right? Jenny runs into The Master, who figures out what she is, tracks back to the planet, and boom: one army of cracked-out squirrels running around.

They could repopulate the entire Time Lord Race, in their image(s).

What was it about this show, and the whole 'God' complex/theme thing?

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

Oh MAN. He really could create a New Gallifrey based on him, couldn't he? That's a very scary thought.

[pluckyyounggirl.livejournal.com]

I can't even tell you how much I hate the whole No!Regeneration situation. IT MADE NO SENSE AT ALL.

I, too, am so excited about tomorrow. I just know it's going to be so awesome. How can it not be? SQUEE!

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

I can't even tell you how much I hate the whole No!Regeneration situation. IT MADE NO SENSE AT ALL.

*grumble grumble grumble*

I, too, am so excited about tomorrow. I just know it's going to be so awesome. How can it not be? SQUEE!

I really am too! I can't wait to see Agatha Christie. She's actually the historical figure I'm most looking forward to seeing out of all the series.