mrv3000 | (no subject)

Current Mood: awake

(no subject)

I still kinda don't know what to say. I was watching Stewart and Colbert when it happened, which was pretty awesome. McCain's speech was all kinds of classy and Obama's speech made me tear up at the enormity of history.

In other news, Prop 8. *sighs* However I'm still encouraged by it. Why? Just 8 years ago - in 2000 - there was Prop 22. (You know, the Proposition that was just struck down for being unconstitutional?) It passed 61% for and 38% against. Current numbers for Prop 8 are only 52% for and 48% against. And while I really wish Prop 8 would have been struck down this time around so we could be done with this nonsense, I'm finding this at least a step in the right direction. I don't doubt that eventually the courts will find Prop 8 unconstitutional as well, but attitudes are changing, if slowly.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

*hug*

It's a very good day. :)

Yeah. It is. : )

Even in Florida, where the measures have to have 60% to take effect, their related proposition barely passed.

And unless things have changed overnight, all of the anti-reproductive-rights propositions nationwide failed.

It might not be all the outcomes we'd like, but things do seem to be going in the right direction. You can't change people's attitudes overnight, so I'll take gradual change.

Yeah. It's getting better, I just wish that it were getting better faster.

Still very pleased about Obama.

Yeah. It's getting better, I just wish that it were getting better faster.

Yeah, me too.

Still very pleased about Obama.

Yes!

Every time I think about something like Prop 8. it makes me wonder how it can not be ruled unconstitutional (which hopefully it will be).

I seriously doubt it'll hold up in court.

it's a constitutional amendment to the state constitution. It can't be ruled unconstitutional. If it passes, it'll rewrite our constitution. The only way to get it overturned is to then pass an initiative that is another amendment to negate this one.

That's why it's so so bad.

I don't know all the ins and outs of the process, but with just a little googling I'm already finding court cases where constitutional amendments have been found unconsitutional.

Actually, just after I posted that they said on the news that Gloria Albright is already mounting a case against it. YAY! That's good news at least.

\o/

I don't really see how an amendment to TAKE AWAY civil rights can be constitutional (which is why 22 was overturned); but who knows how long it's going to take to get the issue settled once and for all.

People did finally give up on passing new anti miscegenation laws, right?

I've no idea how anyone could think this would be legal. Does not compute.

I don't know if individual attitudes are changing so much as older, more intolerant people are being replaced by younger, more tolerant people in the electorate. But even that is good, because, well, it can probably only get better.

As someone else pointed out, at least the reproductive rights-related measures went much better.

And, you know, President Obama! Hooray!

I think there might be some of that - that we'll see more and more change as the older generation dies off.

And President Obama still hasn't sunk in really. :D

My mother and I had a discussion about it today. My mother- who 4 years ago was for such a ban, said that it takes time, and as much as we like it to be good and right the first time the issue comes up, that usually doesn't happen. Hopefully this is the end of the hate we are seeing, or at least, the peak; and in 8 years such a measure might get a different response.

Probably have to wait until Scalia dies off, but we can hope and dream and fight, and by discussing it, move forward.

(I keep saying this so I don't punch a Mormon on my way home).

Your mother is a great example of it. People hate being told they *have* to do something, but if they can come around on their own - it's winning the battle. Hopefully that's the direction we're headed.

And until then, everyone can move to Massachusetts and be my neighbors.

The problem is, they *can't* find Prop 8 unconstitutional because it basically *changes* the state constitution. :-(

Most of my gay friends are already talking about leaving the state, and I don't blame them. Why should they live here if they can't expect to be treated like people under the constitution? :-(

But it still can be deemed unconstitutional, no? The people could vote to amend the constitution to ban white shoes, but eventually the courts would toss it out, wouldn't they?

I googled (you scared me there for a moment) and am finding cases where courts have found consitutional amendments unconstitutional.

Hmm. Wonder if this one could get to the Supreme Court.

It could- just make sure someone's put something in Scalia's coffee that day.

Bwah!

Small consolation, but while we were all distracted by the election Starbucks snuck the Eggnog Latte back on the menu.

YES!!!

*Cheers!*

Will have to go on a reconnaissance mission tomorrow, here in Glasgow, to find out if the same applies here. :D

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!

I really was hoping for Prop 8 to go down in flames, but I guess I can't say I'm surprised. I am just curious how this relates to people who have already been married in California. I see Pro-8 people saying they no longer count, but my friend claims the language of the amendment doesn't actually retroactively take away his marriage. I await the fallout.

I am always surprised that my dad, who I think is a homophobe, has never been able to get behind a constitutional ban on gay marriage. He manages to set aside his prejudices enough to say that while he may not agree with homosexuality, it doesn't seem American to block someone's rights that way. My jaw just about hit the floor when he said that 4 years ago. (And really, a Southern Baptist from Louisiana. It isn't what you would expect.) Even more amazing when you consider that he used to favor banning gays from military service, back when I was in high school. (That was actually the first bigoted thing I ever remember him saying, and I like to think that my 16 year old self's shock and disgust with his attitude made a difference to his more receptive attitude now.) Of course, I always wonder how other people can't at least be that sensible, if an old white guy from Louisiana can do it. :/

I guess I'm not surprised either. I was hopeful, but... But I still like the fact that if it didn't get there, it's *getting* there. I'm encouraged to see that people's attitudes are changing.

And your Dad really makes me hopeful - that a person can recognize that while they might not like something, that doesn't give them the right to take others' rights away.

I'm not really sure what it means for people who were already married, since marriage is an ongoing act instead of a one-time thing. Hmm.

Yeah, that's why even though I hate to admit that my dad has his inner bigot, I tell that story. It does give me hope and points out that people can surprise you.

I am hoping that they don't try to say a word about the marriages that were already performed. Ongoing state or not, that would be the sprinkles on top of the cupcake of wrong.

Don't new laws take effect on January 1st? And does the same rule apply to propositions? If that is the case, couldn't gays continue to marry in the State of California until then?

Wikipedia had the answer to my question:

Were the measure to gain voter approval, it would take effect November 5, the day after Election Day[141]. However, some California "county clerks say that because it usually takes a month for election results to be certified as final, they do not plan to stop issuing marriage licenses to same-sex couples until they are directed by the state health department, which oversees marriage records

Good for them. Hopefully they can get an injunction before then.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only