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Doctor Sue
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splash_the_cat was looking for Mary Sue metas, through which I found The Original Mary Sue Litmus Test.The term "Mary Sue" is one that gets me to roll my eyes these days, especially if used to describe a canon character. It's code for "I really cannot stand this character and so I'm justifying it with slapping on the label of Mary Sue." Don't believe me?
This is the Doctor from Doctor Who held up to The Original Mary Sue Litmus Test. (It was originally made for the Gargoyle fandom, so a few questions were tossed that were fandom-specific.)
I'm not trying to say that the Doctor is a Mary Sue. He's obviously not, but I'm saying that you really could slap "Mary Sue" onto just about any canon character. It's a term that in fandom has pretty well lost its meaning now.
I've kept a running total of points whenever it scores.
Section 1 - The Name Game
Is the character named after you? (This can be your first name, middle name, or the name you go by in chat or irc.) If so, stop now. Put your pencil (mouse?) down and turn in your test.[10]
DO NOT NAME YOUR CHARACTER AFTER YOURSELF.
DO NOT NAME YOURSELF AFTER YOUR CHARACTER.
I DON'T CARE WHAT YOUR EXCEPTION IS.
- Phew. Safe. No points.
Is the character's name an unusual spelling of a more common name or word?[1]
- No.
A female with a male-sounding name?[1]
- Nope.
A name the character chose for him or herself, because s/he "didn't want to forget"?[1]
- Bingo! Well, maybe not the forgetting part, but he did give it to himself. (1 point)
A noun or adjective not normally used for a name (especially for human characters)[1]?
- Uh huh! (2 points)
Does the character have a really cool name that you wish you had?[1]
- Uh...no.
Is the character's name in the title of the story or is the title otherwise a description of the character? (i.e. "The Girl Who Could Fly")[5]
- You'd better believe it, baby! (7 points)
Does the character have more than one name? (i.e. a nickname or a pseudonym that other characters use to refer to the character)[1]
- Yuppers. Theta. Which is NOT his real name - take note ff.net! (8 points)
Did you spend more than a day looking for just the right name?[1]
- No idea.
Have you considered naming your pet or child the character's name?[1]
- I haven't, but I'm sure someone has! (9 points)
Section 2 - Physical Attributes
Is the character the same gender as you?[1]
- Nope. (I'll simplify this one.)
Is the character from the same racial group as you?[1]
- Nope. Not even from this planet.
Is the character a hybrid of two or more species?[3]
- No, but there's an offshoot of him that becomes a hybrid! I'm totally giving points. (12 points)
Is the character a cross-breed of any other type? (i.e. multi-racial, multi-clan)[1]
- I suppose I shouldn't give more points for Ten II, should I?
Is the character not subject to limitations normally put upon someone of this species? [4]
- Hmmm. The Doctor did fly off from the Time Lords, but I'm sort of thinking anyone could ditch them if they wanted. Romana did, after all.
Take away four points if the character does not have the benefits of being part of the race but still has the drawbacks. (Examples: A character who is any part gargoyle who cannot fly, ever, in your entire story series. A character who is part fay who cannot work magic, ever, in your entire story series.) Take away only one point if the character eventually does get the benefit, anywhere in the story series.
- Um, it's complicated. I'm not taking away any points either.
Is the character a teenager or in her/his early twenties?[1]
- Heh. Not by a long shot.
Does the character look like s/he is a teenager or in her/his early twenties for no apparent reason[2]?
- HE WILL! BWAH! But I suppose I can't score for both. See next question.
For a magical or special scientific reason[2]?
- Regeneration = science. (11 points)
That you plan on making a plot point later?[1]
- Oh it will be a plot point again and again and again. (12 points)
Does this sentence or similar appear anywhere in your story? "(Character's name) was the youngest person to ever become (insert job title here)."[5]
- I don't think so. I don't think they even said that about Romana, even though she was a baby in Gallifreyan terms.
Is the character the age you would like to be?[1]
- No.
Is the character beautiful or roguishly handsome?[1]
- In New Who he is. (13 points)
Does one or more of the regulars find the character highly attractive?[1]
- That would be "or more." (14 points)
Do other regulars see him/her as a threat because of this?[1]
- *pets Mickey* (15 points)
Does the character have an unusual eye color for no apparent reason?[3]
- No.
Will this be a plot point later?[1]
- No.
Does the character have really nice hair that you describe more than once, or on the first page?[1]
- *SNORTS* (16 points)
Does the character have an accent which you do not share?[1]
- He does! But...he probably had the same accent as the creators.
Does the character have a scar or a strange marking that is noticed by another character, but does not actually detract from his/her appearance?[1]
- The mole! (17 points)
Is the character deaf, mute, or both?[1]
- Not unless there are other aliens involved.
Is s/he no longer deaf and/or mute by the end of the story/series or else dead? (subtract 1 pt if character is alive and still deaf or mute at the end of the entire series)[3]
- Not unless there are other aliens involved.
Is the character otherwise physically disabled? (anyone who says "She's so pretty that it's like a disability because everyone hates her or wants to have sex with her" will be summarily keelhauled)[subtract 2 pts]
- Nope.
Is the character no longer disabled at the end of the series, or else dead?[1]
- Nope.
Is the character mentally disabled? (read: at the functional level of Forrest Gump or below)[subtract 2]
- Nope.
Does the character have any telekinetic, telepathic, or other psychic powers despite / because of this disability?[3]
- Not related to a disability...
Is the character overweight? (not just "I ate too many Snackwells and now my thighs are HUGE, but honestly overweight)[subtract 2]
- Skinny boy!
Is this remarked upon by another character who is not motivated by jealousy?[subtract 2]
- No.
Is the character no longer overweight by the end of the series?[4]
- No.
Section 3 - Personal Traits
Is the character the long-lost child or descendent or sibling of a regular or recurring character?[1]
- I WISH.
Was the character adopted or did he/she otherwise live with people who were not his/her parents as a child?[1]
- As far as I know, no.
Is the character a member or a friend of a hitherto unknown clan of gargoyles?[1]
- HA! (Had to leave that one in.)
And is the last surviving member of that clan?[1]
- The last of the Time Lords! (18 points)
Add points for each aspect seen somewhere during your character's life:
- abandoned by caregivers[1]
- born or forced into slavery[1]
- born or raised in extreme poverty[1]
- sole survivor of a calamity[2]
- physical abuse[2]
- sexual abuse by a caregiver[3]
- rape[3]
- member of a "despised" class or race[1, 2 if it is a plot point of the "I can make a contribution even thought I'm ... " variety]
- illegitimate birth[2]
- later parent of illegitimate child[1 pt each]
- any other life experience inspired by V.C. Andrews[3]
- Well he later was the parent of Jenny :D Totally a point! Also, he's the sole survivor of a calamity! (21 points)
Does the character suffer from guilt about something terrible that s/he did in the past?[1]
- Hell yes. (22 points)
Do the other characters eventually convince her/him that it was not his/her fault?[1]
- Actually...no. I don't think anyone has.
Does the character share your religious beliefs?[1]
- *thinks to The Satan Pit* No, I don't worship at the Church of Rose.
Did the character have an unusual birth or unusual experience in early infancy? (i.e. abducted, placed in a basket and set afloat, visited by Three Weirdos, etc.)[1]
- LOOMS. Or not.
Does the character have a twin, a clone, or a sibling of the same gender?[2]
- HA! Ten II does get more points!! (24 points)
About whom you plan on writing another story later?[2]
- They'd better! *shakes fist* (26 points)
Does the character have a very good singing voice?[2]
- He's only crooned slightly from what I can remember. Good but not rock star good.
Or play a musical instrument amazingly well?[1]
- Yup! Who knew he had organ playing skills? (27 points)
The guitar or flute, for instance?[2]
- The recorder! (29 points)
Does the character have better taste in music than you do?[1]
(For example, does your character own cd's that you think educated people ought to own, even though you've never actually listened to the music yourself?)
- I'm sure he does. (30 points)
Does the character do what you do for fun or profit?[1]
(This includes having the same job you have, or would like to have when you're older, or having a job that sounds like a lot of fun even though you know nothing about it. It can also mean RPing, computer programming, whatever.)
- No.
Is the character royalty of any type?[3]
- King of Belgium! (33 points)
That she/he does not originally know about?[3]
- He did seem rather surprised... (36 points)
Does the character make more wisecracks than Brooklyn?[1]
- No idea who Brooklyn is, but I'm guessing YES. (37 points)
Does everyone end up liking the character (among the regulars you like)?[1]
- Of course! He's the Doctor! (38 points)
Section 4 - Super Powers
Does the character, not being fay, have magical/mutant powers anyway?[2]
- He has powers, but they're related to his species.
Does the character have telekinesis or telepathy? (Twins count.)[2]
- Check. (40 points)
Does the character just "know things" for no apparent reason?[2]
- All. The. Time. (42 points)
Can the character fly?[1]
- YES! (43 points)
Without the aid of wings?[2]
- And he GLOWS. Take that! (45 points)
Can the character heal with a touch and/or thought?[1]
- Errrrrn...I can't remember any outright healing, but he put Chloe under with just a touch. And he's put SJ under with a touch. That counts. (46 points)
Do animals (especially fuzzy ones) instinctively like the character?[2]
(Subtract two points if the only animals that like the character are non-butterfly insects and crawly lizard-types.)
- Kittehs! (48 points)
Section 5 - The Love Connection
Does the character fall in love with and/or have sex with another recurring character from the show?[1]
- Yes. Yes he does. (49 points)
With whom you would like to fall in love and/or have sex?[1]
- She's not my type. Can't speak for TPTB.
Does the character fall in love with and/or have sex with another original character?[1]
- I'm of the belief that the Doctor has loved before, and so yes. (48 points)
With whom you would like to fall in love and/or have sex?[1]
- Erm no. Can't speak for TPTB.
Does the story end with the character's wedding?[2]
- No, but there's practically a beach proposal by his other self. Eh, I'll let this one go.
Section 6 - The Real World and Your Character
Would you like to be friends with the character if you met in real life?[1]
- Sure! (51 points)
Do you think everyone who reads the story should automatically like the character and want to be friends with the character?[1]
- Sure! (52 points)
If someone tells you he/she doesn't like your character, do you take it as a personal attack on you?[1]
- Not really. Unless they then go that one step further, feeling the need to comment on the fans of the character to justify their dislike.
Do you ever pretend, just to yourself, that you are the character, with the same strengths and abilities?[1]
- It would be hysterical, but no. Although I am now tempted to get a sonic screwdriver toy just so I can. HOWEVER, I can almost guarantee that TPTB have pretended to be the Doctor at different times, if only to act out a scene. (53 points)
If someone calls your character a Mary Sue, do you immediately assume they're jealous of you?[3]
- Damn straight! (Okay, no.)
Section 7 - The Fiendish Plot
Do you introduce the character on the first page of the story?[2]
- Actually, in both Classic and New Who, the Doctor's initial entrance is a bit into the story.
In the first sentence?[1]
- No.
Do you tell the story from the character's point of view, all or mostly?[1]
- I'd say that while there are exceptions, it's mostly from his POV. (54 points)
Does the character manage to develop a friendship with an otherwise villainous character, and through this friendship, reform the other character?[2]
- Oh, it's happened a time or two. :D Shame about the Master though. (56 points)
Is the character transformed into a gargoyle or into a magical or genetically-altered being?[5]
- Well, he is continually transformed into a new body. (61 points)
Is the character happier in her/his new form?[1]
- He generally does think that his current body is the most awesome body ever and completely superior to everything that's come before or will come later. So yes. :D (62 points)
Do people like the character better in her/his new form?[1]
- Eh, it's mixed.
Do you wish you could be transformed because of the neat powers?[1]
- Not really.
Does the character save the day and/or another character's life?[3]
- Why are there only 3 points with this?? (65 points)
Through magical/mystical intervention?[1]
- You know, I can't really think of anything off the top of my head. It's usually all science stuff. Even things like TARDIS!Rose I'd consider to be more science than magic.
Through dying? (Turning to stone "forever" counts.)[3]
- Totally! (68 points)
Through almost dying?[2]
- Totally! (70 points)
Does everyone go into mourning?[1]
- Usually. (71 points)
Does s/he get not-dead by the end of the story?[4]
- Always! (75 points)
Will s/he get not-dead in the sequel?[4]
- You betcha! (79 points)
Do you plan to write many more stories revolving around this character?[2]
- There will always be DW stories. (81 points)
Do you plan to write one or more stories featuring this character's child(ren)?[2]
- It wouldn't surprise me if Jenny would come back sometime. (83 points)
0-14 Developed character, unlikely MS.
15-20 Borderline character. Characters in this range are potential MS's, who can go either way dependent on the author's skill.
21+ Mary Sue/Gary Stu. Proceed with greatest caution.
35+ Reconsider your character and plot. Please.
- Total: 83 points. Oh crap.
ETA: I revised the scoring since I missed "sole survivor of a calamity[2]" first time around.
ETA2:
principia_coh did this for Rose, Martha and Donna, based on the POV of RTD. Her results:Rose: 38 points
Martha: 35 points
Donna: 36 points
Funny how they're all about the same. Well not "funny" so much as "they're companions of the Doctor and so are supposed to be special."
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I wouldn't even say that self-insertion characters are, by definition, Mary Sues, if they're not idealized.
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In the Who fandom I think we're a little more open to OCs in fic because on the show we get OCs every single episode--a Whofic with no OCs at all is probably porn. But I know in some fandoms, people will assume that *any* OC in a fic is some sort of author insert, which would piss me off if I was writing in a fandom like that because it is possible to come up with original characters who are sympathetic and likeable who aren't author inserts. In which case, they'd not be Mary Sues. Gr.
Also on my shit list: People who call Rose a Mary Sue and then turn around and point out all her flaws and foibles. Erm. The whole point of a Mary Sue is they're supposed to be Perfect in Every Possible Way, so the fact that you can point out the numerous character flaws that Rose possesses makes her automatically *not* a Mary Sue.
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Thank you! They can't have it both ways.
What I suspect some Rose-haters are attempting to articulate is the idea that although Rose is a flawed character, she is treated by the other characters (specifically, the Doctor) as though she were a Mary Sue. Which, again, is utter tot, but I would at least be able to take those people more seriously if they could do anything except point a finger and scream 'MARY SUE!' at the top of their virtual lungs.
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Which is not to say I don't totally agree it's been overused/misused into irrelevancy. And the worst abuse is definitely the trend toward applying it to canon characters, especially if they're regulars. Newsflash, people: Anyone who appears in the opening credits is SUPPOSED to be special.
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Anyone who appears in the opening credits is SUPPOSED to be special.
Well, YEAH. Have there ever been any shows where the main character(s) are below-average - in a way that isn't comical - and who sit around doing absolutely nothing?
Like all of SG-1 were very special bunnies. But that was the point of the team. Fist-shaking about how TPTB gave Daniel the ability to translate 1 million languages or gave Sam the ability to field-strip a MALP in 10 seconds makes me look at the person funny.
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Still, I think Bella is more of a Mary Sue than most canonical characters. Hence this from
And I'm ranting again... *sighs*
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a) For pieces longer than a ficlet, or a chapter of a longer story, is the OC made much more the focus of the tale than the canon characters?
b) Is the inherent awesomeness of the OC demonstrated via the Worf Method, particularly if it's a repeated theme?*
c) Would anyone except the author actually give a flying whozit about the character, if the character were stripped of any outlandishly exceptional abilities?
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Note that by these criteria, there are definitely some canon characters out there that fit my definition of a Mary Sue. Example #1: Buffy.
*The Worf Method was the situation created in ST:TNG (and to a smaller extent, DS9) where the toughness of any badass alien was demonstrated by having them wail on Worf with the greatest of ease. Why? Because it is a given that Klingons are fierce warriors. Also, it is a given that Starfleet officers are highly trained in other methods of fighting. Therefore, if someone can beat the crap out of a Klingon warrior who is also a Starfleet officer, they must be truly fearsome. Except they did it over and over and over again, at which point it just becomes asinine.
Applied in general, it would mean something like the following...
Given: The Doctor is an extremely intelligent and highly skilled problem solver.
Proof of OC awesome: Making the Doctor look like an idiot in comparison to the OC.
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There could be exceptions, right? I'm toying with a DW fic from the POV of "Mary" (um...I think I might rename her now) the 60-something landlord of the flats where Ten II and Rose live.
b) Is the inherent awesomeness of the OC demonstrated via the Worf Method, particularly if it's a repeated theme?*
HEH! I love that test. That's a great one.
c) Would anyone except the author actually give a flying whozit about the character, if the character were stripped of any outlandishly exceptional abilities?
Hmm. Interesting.
Note that by these criteria, there are definitely some canon characters out there that fit my definition of a Mary Sue. Example #1: Buffy.
*nods* Like
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And is it okay that I got a little thrill out of seeing "Doctor Sue" as the title of this post, as my first name is really Sue?
Also, I TOTALLY refer to my cat as "Doctor Boo" (And "Master Boo" and 'The Face of Boo"...), so that point is certainly well earned multiple times over, I'm sure o_0
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D'oh! It was all squished together and I missed it!
And is it okay that I got a little thrill out of seeing "Doctor Sue" as the title of this post, as my first name is really Sue?
:D *pats*
Also, I TOTALLY refer to my cat as "Doctor Boo" (And "Master Boo" and 'The Face of Boo"...), so that point is certainly well earned multiple times over, I'm sure o_0
AWWWWWWWWWW!
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Total: 81 points. Oh crap.
Oh how I laughed and laughed and laughed...
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And people who call original/canon characters Mary Sues are crazy 95% of the time. After all, aren't most Mary Sues the result of bad self-insertion fic, written so the fanfic authors can pretend they're part of that world? The original/canon Mary Sues that are out there in novels/tv are essentially the same thing: authors using their main characters solely for wish-fulfillment purposes. If you can write the character sanely, then you don't have a Mary Sue.
Unfortunately though, it seems that Mary Sue is fast becoming just another name for "character I don't like."
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*nods* I do think it could be a good guidline for fic writers. Something to use as a tool rather than used by people as a weapon.
If you can write the character sanely, then you don't have a Mary Sue.
I think that's what it boils down to. Authors are always going to draw off personal experiences and emotions when writing - it's all about being good at it.
Unfortunately though, it seems that Mary Sue is fast becoming just another name for "character I don't like."
Yup. And that's the part I can't stand. I'm really not trying to be a champion of badfic writing - it's the overuse and misuse of the word by fandom.
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Let's be honest, pretty much all "Mary Sue" is is an easy descriptive to use for "(usually female) character I don't like". I shy away from the description a lot more these days than I used to because it's invariably stupid.
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Female or GETS IN THE WAY OF MY OWN OTP, DAMMIT! It got tossed around for the character Daniel in SG-1, mainly because he was a threat to Jack/Sam-ness. Likewise, it got thrown at Sam because she was a threat to Jack/Daniel-ness.
I'm on to you, fandom!
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People always say Rose is a Mary Sue. Have you try her character with that test?
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Yeap. Dec 2007.
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Although I would like to point out that there have been a few one-shot characters that smacked of potential MarySueitis for me *coughRiverSongcough* but maybe since they're canon I'll just stick with 'plot device' or the writer pulling a 'just because I can' *coughRiverSongcough*
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Time war?
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He does! But...he probably had the same accent as the creators
Actually if I understood it correctly it was a Canadian that created the idea for the show.
Poor Doctor, I wonder what his reaction to being called a Gary Stu.
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Rose would get that slightly mad TIL grin and say, "After you GaryStu." At that point all bad things would then shrivel and be reborn from the sparkly perfection that is their cuteness.
Mmmhmm. It would so be just like that.
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But even if they are is it that difficult to hit the back button and find something else to read? It must be for some people because they react as though it is a personal affront to them that someone wrote a Mary Sue.
Young writers especially are going to write Mary Sues. They love the canon characters so much they want to interact with them. My cousin and I wrote self inserts for Star Wars and Star Trek. There was no internet back then so we couldn't post them, but we wrote them and laughed about them and had fun. So I ignore stories like that and find something else to read. Let them have their fun, they're not hurting anything.
When it's adults continuing to write Mary Sues that's more irritating but still, I just hit the back button and find something else. There's no need for the intense hate and leaving reviews telling the writer that their story is a crime against humanity. I always wonder why people who feel that way don't just go write their own fic instead of spending all that energy railing against Mary Sues.
Mary Sue has been around a long time (remember Ann Shirley creating characters with outlandish names who were usually dying and everyone mourned them?) She goes back even further than that. Of course with the internet it's easier to run into her. ;) But she's not going anywhere. People really need to stop worrying about it so much.
I better stop before this turns into an essay. ;) I do find the whole concept of Mary Sue very interesting though.
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Exactly.
There's no need for the intense hate and leaving reviews telling the writer that their story is a crime against humanity.
I think that constructive criticism can be good. The point of posting a fic for public consumption (as opposed to it only amusing the author(s)), is to put something out that others will enjoy reading. And so constructive critism done in a way to honestly try to help the author to become better is a good thing.
However, there are a few out there who feel the need to be Guardians of Fanfic, and feel it's their duty to deliver a royal smackdown. And others still who will simply flame, which helps no one - the only point being to make the flamer feel really really really good about themselves.
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Look at Lord of the Rings - it's filled with so-called "Sues." The stories even drew on the author's own war experiences, from what I understand, and it wouldn't surprise me if he used it to fill a need for completion in himself.
Loads of characters can be called Mary Sues if you work at it long enough.
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Heh. Not by a long shot.
NOT YET!
;-)
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