mrv3000 | (no subject)

(no subject)

This is something I've been seeing lately. I'm not involved with any of it, but see it pop up on my flist.

The problem with a fic review site - any fic review site (positive or negative) - is that it's not intended to help the author at all. Oh, it may give the lofty purpose of helping the author, but reviews are entertainment, pure and simple. If Roger Ebert reviews a film, he's not sitting there trying to help the film become better, he's writing/speaking to an audience of people who have nothing to do with the film. A fic review is exactly the same. It speaks to readers, telling them the good, the bad and the ugly. A reviewer wants as many people to read the review as possible to warn them from or nudge them in the direction of the fic. Anyone who claims "it's for the author's sake" is, quite frankly, full of it.

Concrit can be a beautiful beautiful thing. Hopefully your betas will get everything before the fic is released to the world, but stuff slips by. And on the rare occasions when you get someone who wants to go over style and structure with your fic, that can be a real learning experience. However, if that concrit is done in a public manner - especially in a "review" style - it stops being wanting to help the author, and becomes all about "look how smart this review/concrit is for being able to point all this stuff out - this review/concrit deserves its own kudos for being so brilliant." So if someone wants to give concrit, but they have to have to have to have people other than the author see it, I'm really going to question their concrit motives. A LOT.

People can obviously say/do whatever they want, including review the hell out of fanfics. For as long as there's been fandom, there've been people around to give praises and/or beatings. But all that freedom and stuff means I can also call bullshit on the "it's all for the author" logic of fic reviews.

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O.o There's confusion over this concept?

"My fic review site is meant to help authors become better!" is a bunch of self-important nonsense. I can't believe -- wait, this is fandom. Of course I believe it -- I wish it wasn't true that people were saying things like that. Reviews are for the readers, not for the writers. Yes, an author can get good info out of negative reviews; I've heard pro writers say they read their Amazon reviews and get a lot of information out of the 2 and 3 star ones. But no one writes an Amazon review for the sake of the author, and I can't imagine anyone publically posts fic reviews for the sake of the writer. In either case, you want to talk to them, you email them.

So yeah, basically, I agree with you. Fandom keeps coming up with new things to faceplam over.

I think I've decided there are three very separate things that we do in response to fanfic:

1. Comment (Just a thank you to the author: I read it, I was here, thanks for doing this for free and entertaining me. People call them "reviews" but they're really not. The audience is the author and the goal is to just pop your head up and say thanks.)
2. Review (A sample opinion aimed at other readers, giving them a clue as to whether or not they might want to spend the time to read the fic.)
3. Concrit (Doesn't happen that often outside of beta relationships, and when it does happen it's not usually in public because the goal is only to help the author become a better writer, not to prove anything to anyone else.)

They are all separate, distinct things and getting them mixed up in your mind can only lead to tears, I think.

Word.

O.o There's confusion over this concept?

You'd think it'd be a given, but apparently not.

Reviews are for the readers, not for the writers. Yes, an author can get good info out of negative reviews; I've heard pro writers say they read their Amazon reviews and get a lot of information out of the 2 and 3 star ones. But no one writes an Amazon review for the sake of the author, and I can't imagine anyone publically posts fic reviews for the sake of the writer. In either case, you want to talk to them, you email them.

Exactly. Can we just call a duck a duck instead of trying to pass it off as a goose?

So yeah, basically, I agree with you. Fandom keeps coming up with new things to faceplam over.

Just when you think you've seen it all...

I'm really going to question their concrit motives. A LOT.

It's so ironic how this fandom tries to sound so educated and winds up behaving like a bunch of high school girls while trying to mock a certain section of fandom by calling them high school girls.

Yes! Excellent distinctions!

It's been driving me a bit bonkers lately.

It's headache-inducing. The Mrs. White from Clue flames headache. :D

"My fic review site is meant to help authors become better!"

WAIT! I understand this logic. So if I pop into people's lj's and tell them they are wankers, idiots and a**holes, I'm only trying to help them be better?

Who knew?

I've tried to ignore it, and sometimes I've even succeeded. Most times it annoys the hell out of me, though.

I am currently suffering from a case of the vapours because apparently when I mounted a handy-dandy all-chapter navigation to each chapter of my very long 26-chapter fic, one half of one chapter go mis-formatted and I didn't catch it. AND NO ONE TOLD ME!!! Not a comment, not a PM, and I know people read it because I've got ljtoys on it. So then a review comes out and I get called out publicly as careless for having that happen. BUT NO ONE TOLD ME! ~squid arms~

Seriously people, when you see a glaring error in my fic, LET ME KNOW! GAH! So embarrassed!

Well obviously!

You rang? ;)

The only reason I've paid attention is because it's been coming up on my flist. And then reading some justifications of it...my brain went boom.

Awwwww!

You know, that's probably a whole other analysis right there - what people feel comfortable with saying to an author - both publicly and privately. Something that obvious I might have spoken up, but typos and stuff I generally notice but quickly move on when reading. So by the time I'm done reading a fic I have completely forgotten about any typos.

There she is!

Gotta love people who pretend they're doing the author a service by deigning to make snarky comments about their fic. I guess they're trying to legitimise their snark.

Like you said, nasty reviews are always going to exist, but passing it off as helpful is silly.

In short: I AGREE.

*snort*

I guess the fact that you don't obsessively crawl over all your old lj entries is crime.

Shame on you for having some sort of life and for your readers for having the same.

And you know, I guess the fact that lj has been futzing with their layout codes for the last few months which has caused problems for some of us with custom layouts was overlooked by this troll?

WORD. So. Much. WORD.

Concrit is only for the author--there's no real need to post it publicly. Now, often in comments I'll ask questions about something in the text, but then it's because I'm interested and want to know more. In that case it's not crit, it's curiosity, and I feel comfortable posting that publicly because (A) I hope the author takes it as the compliment it is--they made me curious about something, and (B) others might have the same question.

But yeah, anything that claims to be concrit that's made public is more about the reviewer wanting to look superior.

There's a place for reviews--even ones that eviscerate an author or fic--but let's call them what they are.

You know, that's probably a whole other analysis right there - what people feel comfortable with saying to an author - both publicly and privately.

Add the author's expectations to the mix and you could write an essay on this.

Like a wise person once said: own your shit, people! Putting a big bow on something isn't going to change what it is.

Typos happen in general publications not just on lj. There was recently an article discussing people who felt the need to point out every little mistake like typos and spelling.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28900351/

It was not flattering.

Pointers, please? It may annoy me, but I'd still like to read up on it, get the pissy hormones going. You know, all the good stuff. :D

The cause I'm pretty sure was the bizarre propensity for rich text editor to swap /div and /lj-cut tags. I had it formatted correctly when I first posted it, but a couple months later, when it was all finished, I went back through and added an all-chapter link list to the header of each chapter and that made rich text editor swap the tags around again, leading to half a chapter being centred instead of left-justified.

Also, I apparently sometimes use commas incorrectly. *shrug*

Concrit is only for the author--there's no real need to post it publicly. Now, often in comments I'll ask questions about something in the text, but then it's because I'm interested and want to know more. In that case it's not crit, it's curiosity, and I feel comfortable posting that publicly because (A) I hope the author takes it as the compliment it is--they made me curious about something, and (B) others might have the same question.

*nods* I've done that myself. (Opal's fic where I commented, trying to work out her whole time technology thing she had going.)

There's a place for reviews--even ones that eviscerate an author or fic--but let's call them what they are.

EXACTLY. I'm not trying to demand that fandom stop writing fic reviews, but can we PLEASE recognize them for what they really are?

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