mrv3000 | (no subject)

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Got a question...

I've been thinking about Lucy some more, and did it seem like they were saying that the Master sort of did his trademark hypnotic thing on her? Timothy Dalton (aka Romana**) said something about her being manipulated, didn't he?

I find this somewhat disappointing. I kind of liked thinking that Lucy was just as batshit insane as the Master.

** Totally my canon until EoTII airs.

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Yeah, so did I. They were our evil OTP... a bit like Spike & Dru on Buffy. :/

Very disappointing.

Did the Master say something in TLotTL that she lost it when he took her to Utopia? She seemed pretty lucid in EoT,I. You had to be somewhat insane to believe in the Books of Saxon to begin with. (We're ignoring that they basically came true. And she fell for him pretty fast.

So, to sum up: I think she wasn't totally there to begin with, he made it worse, she got a bit better, she died.

I think your summary may be right. I was just kind of hoping for them to be the Doctor and Rose, I guess. Just evil. :D

So, to sum up: I think she wasn't totally there to begin with, he made it worse, she got a bit better, she died.
THIS! Double heapings of this :-D

I never really got that impression, but I haven't rewatched the GOF Graveyard scene since I first watched EOT. I was kind of figuring that... well, yeah, like

misssara11 said, she went crazy and then got a little less crazy. I never really wanted her to be IN ON THE PLAN!! because I thought LOTL made it pretty clear that by the end of the year that wasn't she was totally disillusioned and maybe coming down from her crazy high, or at least entering a different state of crazy. I guess after X number of years in a creepy prison somewhere the crazy might have mellowed into what we saw in EOT.

I thought the "I know you better than anyone" line was really interesting, and I think it kind of suggests the opposite of hypnosis, to be honest. And I mean, she has a point; even the Doctor was apparently oblivious ot the fact that the Master, like the Daleks, is the universe's cockroach.

I think up until EoT I was holding on to the idea that it was Lucy's hand we saw picking up the ring. And... yeah.

That is an interesting line. Lucy probably actually listened to the Master, as opposed to dismissing him and his insanity. So she probably did know where he was coming from better than anyone else.

I think a lot of people wanted it to go that way; I was in the minority of people who really didn't, so I was kind of pleased, but I think a lot of people were kind of disappointed.

I like it because it does suggest that she wasn't just completely duped the whole time. I dunno. I keep trying to explain it more eloquently but I'm not really coming up with anything. I think it also implies some sort of... unguardedness or something on his part, which I like to think was one part fondness for her even if it was three parts underestimating her.

...I think the Coles Notes version of all that is that they are still my favourite crazy ship.

I think he broke her, not so much mind-whammy but got her so crazy she was right there with him (there might have been some mind-whammy initially so that she'd get there, but I think the Lucy we knew was just crazy). And she was there chanting for glowy Doctor in LotTL for whatever that means for it.

But she seemed much more lucid here than she ever did in s3, so I have to go with the 'She got better' idea/ But the Master still seemed pretty fond of her until she tried to kill him again so there was something going on there.

She seemed *way* more lucid now than back then. I reeeeeaaaaally wish we could have gotten more between them. It's not that I ship them exactly, but I'm fascinated by them.

Aww EoT *wibbles*

There may be some more coherent thought on everything, but I'm still in my "I just watched EoT I" phase, so for now I'll just sniffle and cry and develop a headache.
This phase may last a while, it took me a week to get over JE.

Awwwwwwwwwww! I expect some personal woe after EoTII airs. *sniffs*

I blame that café scene where Ten's all "when I regenerate, I die- some other man gets to waltz away". *wibble*

I read an interview with RTD where he said that his intention was never to make people think that Lucy was secretly in cahoots with the Master because she was an abused woman who was supposed to show that the Master, despite his dancing around to the Scissors Sisters, Was Not A Good Person.

Anyway, the "abused woman" description has basically made it even impossible for me to think about shipping it. D: I was really delighted when she got in the way of his re-birth or whatever that was in EoT.

The abused part came through loud and clear, but...I was still going for crazy? They don't need to be mutually exclusive.

And was that an old interview or a new one? If it was old, I missed that one.

I think it was newish. I think it was the same interview where I got all excited because he talked about how he didn't like the Time Lords and that was why he got rid of them. *SHAKES FIST*

HE IS A LYING LIAR WHO LIES.

Yes, I am not crazy: http://www.sfx.co.uk/page/sfx?entry=exclusive_more_wit_and_wisdom

ooh I hadnt read that one. he doesn't talk to anyone about his scripts? that explains a lot

She seemed to think murder was kind of naughty and fun in TSOD, and didn't EOT say the Master 'corrupted' her? Which doesn't necessarily imply mind control, although it's not like he wouldn't resort to it. The situation at the end of LOTTL was different, and TBH I'm sort of glad her shooting the Master wasn't all part of a big scheme, but... well, if it had been, I think the resurrection scene would've held together better, because Lucy scheming > cult of whowhathowWTF?

I don't quite remember the exact dialog in EoT, but if it was "corrupting," that's a bit more vague.

And yeah. Apparently Lucy's been plotting with...her family? And a prison guard? :D

I would've liked for Lucy to have been evil and in with the plan to be honest.-

but her not being evil, just crazy and then realising her craziness and trying to fix it is good too

does this mean no dinner parties with the smiths and the saxosns?

In my world there are still dinner parties. XD

good,I like having them as the evil counterpart to the Doctor and Rose

I think Lucy did love Harry/The Master and after seeing Utopia she went more than a bit crazy.
And he encouraged her all the way.
During the 'Year That Never Was', I think he started abusing her (not to the extent that he did others) and she broke down further.
She called the Doctor with the others cause she wanted the pain to stop and when she thought the Master would live on without her and away from her (where she would never know when he might come back and hurt her more) she shot him.
She went to prison afterwards and her family got her into therapy. She still loves the Master but she thinks he's totally batshit insane and both of them need to die permenantly.
Thus the exploding potion.
I also think that the Master loves her the same amount he loves the Doctor but in completely different ways. He went through all the trouble of breaking her and marrying her when he didn't really need to.
He also feels the need to hurt the ones he loves, cause if they stay with him after that they truly love him.
She's just as insane as he is, while the Doctor is just as smart.

Nice analysis!

Thank you. *bows*
Its how I make sense of their disfunctional relationship and how it matches up with the episodes.

I do wonder what an earlier version of the Master would have done differently about Lucy.
Would there be any physical abuse or would he only use verbal and psychological abuse?
Would he feel the need to break Lucy at all and if so would he do it quickly or slowly?
Would an earlier incarnation even consider having Lucy as a 'faithful companion'?
Would he nurture her insanity or her deviousness or both?

It's strange thinking of previous incarnations with Lucy. Maybe Eric Roberts.

I've now made a post about it to encourage more discussion.
http://catyuy.livejournal.com/226821.html

now you've made me wanna read Lucy/Master fic

wait, but I thought Romana was good! why would she wanna end time?

Who knows? But it's been speculated that she's really just about every female guest character in New Who. Why not the guys? ;)

NGL, I really hoped for more Master/Lucy interaction despite everything that was implied about their relationship in the past.

I was very fond of The Master for not making Lucy Just A Pawn Who Dies in his resurrection plans. He was all, "REUNION TIME NAO?", and she was like "DIAF, BASTARD." *dies*

That... brought a certain disappointment that I still can't really shake.

I was very fond of The Master for not making Lucy Just A Pawn Who Dies in his resurrection plans. He was all, "REUNION TIME NAO?", and she was like "DIAF, BASTARD." *dies*

XD That was pretty good. But still - needed more Master/Lucy.

I think she was emotionally disturbed -- abused as a child, perhaps, clearly willing to go into some weird kind of dysfunctional relationship the Master. I don't think she truly comprehended what was going on until it was far too late.

But I did love when she got annoyed at him because the reporter was proving immune to the Archangel network.

That scene and the one where she was dancing made me believe in Lucy the Insane. :D

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Thoughts about Lucy and the Master

Re: Thoughts about Lucy and the Master

The Master in a previous incarnation?

Re: The Master in a previous incarnation?

Re: The Master in a previous incarnation?

Re: Thoughts about Lucy and the Master

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