Rosespam

[mrv3000]

In my internet wanderings, I ran across one of those comments that Rose was good in S1, but her character was crap in S2 - she became useless and weak and...and what show were they watching in S2? Is it because her character was in love that all of a sudden she's "weak?" Because I've got examples from every S2 episode of her being very much not weak.




Right off the bat Rose is helping to fly the TARDIS. Not being given instruction by the Doctor, but actually doing things on her own.



She might have gotten lured away and body snatched, but at least she had the sense to pick up a bar in hopes to smack the crap out of someone. :D



Did she wait around, hoping to be rescued by the Doctor? Hell no! She's the self-rescuing type.



While the Doctor was teaching, Rose was actually sleuthing and stuff. She didn't just take the kitchen job for laughs.



Investigating!



And using the sonic screwdriver!



Right, time to investigate the ship.



Rose wasn't into getting the Doctor's permission to do things.



Finding out about the earpods, and deciding to go with Pete.



Walking straight into danger.



Investigating strange things (without the Doctor.)



Confronting the bad guy (without the Doctor.)



Okay, you could probably say they're both being useless here, but Rose isn't cowering behind the Doctor. :D



Rose takes charge up top, pulling people together.



SHE KILLS SATAN.



It's kind of funny - the Doctor was the bait while Rose was on the attack. :D



You don't want Rose mad at you!



The Doctor babbles on while Rose actually discovers something important.



And figures things out on her own.



Which involves a PICKAXE. :D



Going undercover at Torchwood.



She's one of the few people in the universe would would ever laugh in a Dalek's eyestalk.



Rose could have stayed safe with Jackie & Co., but went back into danger.



And then jumped on a lever to save the planet.

Yeah, some of these examples didn't end well for her, but she wasn't a character who sat back and passively let things happen to her, or spent all her time mooning over the Doctor. Of course, pointing out these moments of awesome would probably just get a "MARY SUE!!!!" response from the same people who thought she became a simpering love-sick girl in S2. To which I can only headdesk. A lot.

Comments

[javabreeze.livejournal.com]

Generally, the comments I've seen from people was that they loved her in series 1 but as soon as she fell in love with the Doctor, she became unbearable. Then again, I'm convinced they weren't watching the same show as us.

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

I've seen that one as well, usually followed up with Rose not knowing her place. *sighs*

[unfolded73.livejournal.com]

I think if you haven't actually watched the episodes in a while, and you get wrapped up in the groupthink of your corner of fandom and those opinions, you start to get a very warped perspective of the way the episodes actually transpired. To be fair, I've had the same thing happen to me a couple of times. For example, while Martha is lovesick in parts of S3, it isn't nearly as bad as the internet had convinced me it was at one point.

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

Right. While it might seem like that was the focus of S3, it really wasn't.

[ginamak.livejournal.com]

I really wonder what show those people were watching sometimes--because it isn't the one I watched. In the one I watched, Rose was made of WIN.

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

Me too!

[shinyopals.livejournal.com]

*CUDDLES ROSE*

PEOPLE ARE BLIND AND STUPID AND ALL MANNER OF THINGS.

I love Rose's s2 character arc.

Arguably in s1, part of her character arc was about making the right (and sometimes scary) choices. S2 it seemed to be more about her growing in her abilities. In TCI she stands up to the Sycorax but it doesn't go so well for her, but by TIP/TSP she's easily taking charge of the situation. I have no difficulty picturing her with her own team as part of Torchwood.

I think she also gets better at confronting the Doctor. Emotionally, in early s1, she waits for him to open up. In School Reunion she's all "... what?" about things to get him to talk. And compare their argument in TUD to the one in Fear Her - both of them are a lot less emotionally charged (well, FH is full of fluff and happy, obviously) but both defend their own points well (until Stuff Happens, but such is DW).

It all leads on pretty naturally to dimension-jumping, ordering-UNIT-about, "how was that sentence gonna end?" Rose in s4.

IN SHORT: ROSE IS AWESOME.

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

*nodnodnodnodnod*

Everything you said.

[nel-ani.livejournal.com]

WTH? Rose is AWESOME!

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

Totally!

[misssara11.livejournal.com]

Okay, you could probably say they're both being useless here, but Rose isn't cowering behind the Doctor. :D

Oh, I don't know about that. I think a chair with pointy bits is quite useful when being attacked versus a sonic dohickey that doesn't harm anything by the creator's own admission. Just saying.

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

Fair point. XD

[arabian.livejournal.com]

Rose-haters who complain about her in S2 are blind, stupid and/or Tennant/Ten haters. I'm sorry; I see no other excuse.

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

Their arguments don't usually seem to be backed up by much. Either that or using meta pulled from everywhere but canon.

[16s16.livejournal.com]

They obviously don't watch the same show as us.
Rose is awesome!

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

Yes!

[http://users.livejournal.com/_thirty2flavors/]

Man do I wish fandom would just say "I don't like Rose because I ship Ten with someone else" and get the hell over it. You cannot convince me that the "I LIKED ROSE IN SEASON 1!!!" doesn't stem from people disliking Ten/Rose and somehow missing the very blatant Nine/Rose. I always see claims that it just CAME OUT OF NOWHERE!!! and I just think OMFG WHAT SHOW WERE YOU EVEN WATCHING AHHHHHH.

I have not read comments on fandomsecrets in a while. LIRL

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

*NODS*

And I really need to stay away from fandomsecrets. It just angries the blood. :D

[shaela]

What show were they watching in S2?

I don’t know. But the one I was watching had the Doctor abandoning one of her closest friends and then lying to her about it. I’ll skip the rant and just say that the Rose I fell in love with would have cared. It’s the single biggest reason I go AU after season one.

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

Wait, what?

[butterfly.livejournal.com]

Honestly, Rose just gets more kickass in S2. It's a good, strong character arc. She grows into a leadership role, fights for what she wants, and never gives up on love (apparently, she's supposed to, if you listen to the anti-Rose people - that was the problem with Rose. She didn't realize that she was on a show called Doctor Who and that meant that she couldn't stay with the Doctor permanently because it's not allowed).

[http://users.livejournal.com/_thirty2flavors/]

She should've been more like MARTHA and MOVED ON!!

Not that I have anything against Martha and I think Martha moving on is just a sign of her being such a badass, but people fail to acknowledge the difference is that Ten was very much in love with Rose and very much a douchebag to Martha.

[effulgent-girl.livejournal.com]

Obviously, those people are crazy. Obvs.

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

:D

[fauxkaren.livejournal.com]

Yeah. I've gotten into that debate before. Rose becomes even more self possessed and awesome in season 2. I've had people say that the fact that she didn't want to leave the planet in The Satan Pit means that she was too clingy to the Doctor. Um. No. The point of that scene was to show that Rose had ultimate faith in the Doctor. She believed that he would be ok and he would save the day, and that he would need her to help. She wanted to stay behind because she believed in the Doctor, not because she was a clingy girlfriend.

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

Oh man, the clingy thing. Of course most of the time that argument fails to mention that the Doctor was way more "clingy" than Rose. Way more.

[gowdie.livejournal.com]

I think it might come down to people who prefer UST, and those who are happy with a metaphorical RST. In season one, they were doing the are they are aren't they dance, and that was okay. But Parting of the Ways is, for me at least, a kind of declaration. They are both openly willing to die for the other, and it ends in a kiss.

Season Two is more the fluffy puppy stage of newly discovered love. And to some, that's very annoying - their worlds revolve around each other to the point of neglecting the other people around them. I almost wonder if it's hitting a very sore nerve for a lot of people - your friend has discovered a new boy/girl and they are all cuddly and annoying and no longer have any time for you.

But that's what I actually like about Season Two - people in new relationships ARE wrapped up in each other in exactly that kind of full of themselves way. It strikes me as very realistic - yes, it's possibly annoying to outsiders, but it's glorious when you're in it.

Rose and the Doctor never had the chance to evolve to the more mellow plateau stage where their world re-expands to include everyone else again.

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

Yeah, that's exactly the way I saw it as well, and why the whole thing felt very realistic to me. That's exactly where they were in S2.

[sunnytyler001.livejournal.com]

Rose was made of win. Whether they like it or not!!! :D

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

Damn straight! :D

[katesutton.livejournal.com]

ROSE. :D I really don't get it, the hate she comes in for. She has such a great story and honestly, no REALLY, fandom, she is not much different in season one than season two. Except for, you know, being better at this whole saving the world deal. She's more independent, not less! Parts of fandom decided to hate her en masse once the love interest bit got blatant in season two and that makes me sad.

[papilio-luna.livejournal.com]

she is not much different in season one than season two.

I must say that the first time I came across the "she was awesome in S1 but the suckiest suck that ever sucked in S2" I was like, bzuh? But... she wasn't any different! I mean, not fundamentally so. She had a different relationship with the Doctor, and she grew to be more confident in her role, but that doesn't mean that she herself changed. She was always just as compassion, practical, brave, and, in some ways selfish as she ever was previously. People just don't like the vibe of her together with Ten, but that doesn't mean that she's different. If anything, it means that he is (and he is—that's sort of the point of the show).

Also I'm a little patronisingly sad for people who declare that watching a young couple happily in love is the most annoying thing ever in the history of television. To me that's like saying you hate watching cute puppies frolicking in fields of wildflowers. And these are often the same folks who complain about Ten being too angsty. OMG PICK ONE! Do you want a happy Ten or a sad Ten?

[honorh.livejournal.com]

This is exactly how I feel. How she somehow got "weaker" when she was more proactive and less dependent on the Doctor than ever, I do not know. How she doesn't care about anyone but the Doctor when she very clearly does (oh, just watch the show, people! I don't have time to dig up every single incident in which Rose shows compassion for someone.) is, likewise, a mystery. They were a bit obnoxious in their puppy love, yes, but isn't everybody?

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

Yeah, the whole selfish thing is a whole other picspam. Hmmm. Maybe I'll have to do that one the next time I get riled up. :D

[rattus-aerius.livejournal.com]

It's because she cut her hair. Trufax.

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

That must be it! :D

[(Anonymous)]

One of the things my husband and I noticed the first round we saw series 1 and 2 was that it was Rose who first notices and discovers things, and isn't that awesome?! And about the clingy thing, oh man!!! Some fans are just so disconnected emotionally because if they really look, truly look, it's the Doctor who's way, way more clingy, especially Nine. Ten 'grew' up and was made better after that regeneration and like DT said, '... so he can just enjoy his time with Rose.'

And yeah, I agree. I think, some people don't know what falling in love is like or that they're so bitter about the state of their lovelife. They who can't stand two characters who love each other completely, who are clearly enjoying each other's company, and who live in their own world with stupid grins that are only meant for each other. In other words, it's like in one of the comic books I read, 'I hate them because they're happy and I'm not.'

Sheesh!! *eyeroll*

Emily

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

Good point about the whole clingy thing. I don't think I ever fully thought that through before, but Nine really was even more clingy than Ten. Bless.

And that's one thing I really loved about S2 - that the show actually showed two people who were in love. Not two people going through some kind of longing UST, but two people who were happy and loved being together. That's so extremely rare on TV.

[morgaine-nicely.livejournal.com]

yeah i dont listen to those people who said all that cuz well, rose was and Is awesome :) they're just saying that cuz they know it's true lol :)

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I should really learn to stop paying attention. :)

[bluebell1916.livejournal.com]

Well....I pretty much ignore the Rose haters. I am content to stay in my happy little Rose-loving cocoon. After all, The Doctor thought Rose was awesome,(he believed in her) so that's good enough for me :) She was very strong in season two. Definitely a leader.

I avoid anti-Rose fanfic as well. I just had a close encounter with one such gem on Teaspoon, in which the Doctor had been trying to get rid of Rose for the longest time because of her unhealthy obsession with staying on the Tardis at all costs. Rose getting stuck in the alternate universe was the perfect solution to get her out of his hair. Do you think Steven Moffatt wrote it? LOL

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

I really need to stop reading f!s. It's just crazy-making. :D

And that's the weirdest sounding fic!

[magali29.livejournal.com]

It's the curse of the female love interest. As someone mentioned above, the female character is okay, as long as she remains in her place. When she becomes the love interest, officially, oh boy! She is hated, pure and simple.

And with Rose, someone posted about liking her in season 1 and not in season 2, while she got better and more independant in seaso 2. But it stuck in fandom and now, like good little sheeps, the fans repeat the same sentence over and over again.

What I hate, too, is the "she is a chav. She doesn't deserve the doctor". Jeez, so only educated people deserve love? What the hell???

Boy, am I glad that Nine and Ten weren't like some of their fans!

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

Rose really couldn't win being a woman and from the wrong side of the tracks. *rolls eyes*

[shinkonokokoro.livejournal.com]

Rose is definitely a strong female lead. I think she's brilliant, and you make very good points.

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

Thank you!

[teruel-a-witch.livejournal.com]

Rose Tyler is a BAMF and those who don't see it are blind wankers. SHE KILLED SATAN FOR GOD'S SAKE xD Period.

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

:D

[starlightmoonla.livejournal.com]

Rose is incredibly awesome in Series 2! It's so sad to hear other people thinking otherwise.

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

People just love to hate.