mrv3000: made by elismor (DW - jackie and ten)
mrv3000 ([personal profile] mrv3000) wrote2010-02-01 09:44 am
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Jacqueline Andrea Suzette Tyler (née Prentice)

"February the first: Mum's birthday. Even in a parallel universe, she still loves a party."

Jackie often brings comic relief to episodes (especially with Ten), but she's not a caricature. In fact, she's quite a complex character.



The earliest we see Jackie is when she's marrying Pete. Things don't start out well when Pete flubs her name.



And things don't seem much better by the time Rose is born. Pete's constantly trying schemes to make money, and she suspects him of cheating on her. Whether or not he was, or if it was in Jackie's mind, we don't really know. But life is a bit rocky for her.



Although she really does love him, in spite of it all.



After Pete's death, Jackie's left on her own to raise Rose. As she says later in Doomsday, she never did anything with her life - she seemed to be trapped.



Just before the Doctor falls into her life, we get a little taste of Jackie that confirms what we already know: she's convinced she'll never find anyone and she likes to party. Bless.




When we first see Jackie, she seems more interested in money than anything else. She talks about getting Rose money by suing, and about what kind of jobs she should look for. But it's understandable when you consider that Jackie's default mode is one of survival. She's spent much of her adult life being a single parent under meager conditions.

There's also her comments to Rose about Rose putting on airs when working in the shop. I always interpret this as coming from two places. One, she's a product of her society and two, Jackie's been clinging a bit to Rose - Rose getting a better job might mean moving out and leaving Jackie behind. Jackie's "never left the flat" (her words from Doomsday), and the thought of Rose leaving is scary.




But Jackie and the Doctor's relationship was destined to be hysterical. :D



I can't even imagine what Jackie went through during the year that Rose was missing. It must have been a complete hell for her. :(



You really can't blame her for smacking the hell out of the creepy guy who took her daughter away.



Jackie's introduction to the TARDIS. It wasn't a positive experience.



Which really freaks her out, and so she rats out the Doctor. Again, you can't really blame her.



Jackie tries to pin down the Doctor. Tries to ask him if Rose would be safe with him. He avoids the question as long as possible, but finally tells her what she doesn't want to hear.



Jackie's not exactly useless. She grabs the phone and starts whipping up some Monster-B-Gone. When backed against a wall, she can surprise you.



After Rose came home safe (oh, and the Doctor saved the world), Jackie starts softening to him. She says she's even willing to get to know him and listen to him. Unfortunately the Doctor gets douchy and refuses to have tea.



That look on Jackie's face: OW. She knows she's losing Rose and there's not a lot she can do about it. She tries asking and even bargaining with Rose, but it's not working. It's a tough situation, and you can see both sides of it.



I think Rose thought she was being honest with Jackie, but Jackie's not buying it. Shoot, even the Doctor's not buying it. (Not that he did any correcting.)




Rose is back and Jackie's trying to convince her that this is a good thing. All Jackie's wanted was for Rose to be safe. The Doctor made her safe and so wins all around in Jackie's mind.



But Rose is miserable and Jackie starts to hear Rose. There's this whole new world Rose is involved in - one where she could talk to Pete and one where things are worth dying for. That had to be HARD for Jackie to take in.



But it got in. Next thing you know, Jackie turns up with super-sized help in order to get Rose back to the Doctor. This is such a huge turnaround for her. I'm sure Jackie would never want Rose to go into danger, but here you see her actually helping Rose get to her new life.



Little did she know she'd get a spazzy skinny dude in return. XD



Jackie wonders what the Doctor has two of. OH, JACKIE. XD



To me this is still one of the funniest moments in all of New Who. Jackie's trying to be helpful, but only in a way that drives the Doctor completely up the wall. XD



Awww, Jackie. She's already beginning to mother him, sleeping next to him while he's ill.



And always there to comfort. Jackie's a nurturer. (It's where Rose gets it from.)



Awwwww! Group hug!



At this point Jackie's past the stage of begging Rose to stay home. She still doesn't like it, calling them mad, but she's resigned.



No wonder the Doctor's terrified of Jackie! One look is enough to say, "if you mess up, I'll grab and cut 'em off." XD



Saying goodbye, trying to get Rose to call. Jackie now has to deal with life without Rose, for the most part.



Rose's lifestyle no longer surprises her. And she's not immediately blaming the Doctor for the breakdown happening on her shoulder. I like to think that after this little moment, they spent a few days with Jackie until the Doctor started ordering things out of catalogs and Jackie tried shoving food down him every chance she got. :D



In Love & Monsters we got a peek into Jackie's world without the Doctor and Rose in it. The big thing is that she's lonely. She's got an empty nest and no one special in her life.



Jackie likes men, which is something the Doctor loved poking fun of, but really ties into her loneliness. She's been trying to fill a hole in her life ever since Pete died. Rose leaving just amplified the loneliness.



But Jackie's happiness is meaningless compared to protecting her daughter. And protecting the Doctor too, as we find out. She'll still kick him in the shin, but will cut anyone who tries to do the same.




BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! I love how Jackie knows this freaks out the Doctor. It's like shooting a water gun at a cat. XD



Jackie's worries have evolved. She's no longer simply worried about Rose's safety, but what Rose will become in this life. I think this is a very long conversation that needed to happen. They're both not being very fair in this very short amount of time it was discussed. Jackie starts talking about Rose not being human (which completely ignores the fact that everyone changes throughout their lives), and Rose simply blows off Jackie. Jackie wants Rose to stay exactly the same, sort of like how Jackie's stayed in one place since Pete died. Rose doesn't want to hear any of it.




Yup, Jackie would totally still kick the Doctor in the shins. XD





And the Doctor gets a little payback for the snog. *dies* I love their relationship.





The funny thing is that Jackie almost slips into a companion relationship with the Doctor here. They give each other knowing looks. Often Jackie can be flaily and ridiculous, but she's not stupid by any means. I'd be tempted to say she's a lot like Donna, although they really are motivated by different things. (It's hard to remember that Jackie and Donna are supposed to be about the same age.)




But it's not too long before the picking on each other starts up again. Just wait, Doctor. Jackie will eventually get you back for this. :D




Back when it aired, I kind of hated the whole thing about slipping in alt!Pete for real!Pete, but now it doesn't bug me as much. *shrugs* It was completely indulgent of RTD, but at least we get to hear some heartfelt words in this little scene. Jackie tells Pete there's been a hole in her life since he died. Pete tells Jackie that she's not really his wife.



But they can't help running to each other anyway. RTD does this kind of love - the kind where it should be wrong but isn't. Not only do you have the Doctor and Rose, but his 2001 series "Bob & Rose" comes to mind.



Side note: the Doctor backing away from Jackie when she tells him to shut up is funny. So is Mickey's reaction. :D



And their reactions when Jackie says there's been no one else in her life - BWAH!! (Also, I don't know if I realized how short Noel was. Huh.)



In the altverse we see that Pete and Jackie are together. Really together since Jackie's expecting. It still seems like a pat ending for them, but after seeing Mickey and Martha in EoT, I get the feeling that RTD works out all the issues and problems of these relationships in his head, but only the end result gets on screen. But even if it is pat, after what Jackie's been through in her life, you can't begrudge her her happy ending.



And then the tables are turned a bit. Suddenly Jackie has this new and happy life, and Rose is the one left behind. If anyone knows how to relate here, it's Jackie.



I never noticed before I capped this, but Jackie's gun shoots off into nowhere, doesn't it? Oh, Jackie. *pets* :D

I've seen Jackie get picked on for following Rose. She has a small child back home, after all. But Jackie's instinct to protect her children is STRONG. I could see in her mind that Tony was safe with Pete, so she could go save Rose. I don't think her own danger really ever entered into it.



She just wants the tin cans to take her to Rose. :D



It's such a tease with the altverse. We see tiny glimpses of what it's been like. For example, Mickey and Jackie have become even closer since last we've seen them. My own theory about this is that Rose went into tunnel-vision mode in the altverse. Her entire world became the dimension cannon, and Jackie and Mickey bonded over that. Also, since Mickey winds up jumping universes in the end, I'm guessing his grandmother had passed away. I'm sure Jackie would have been there for him through that.



You've just gotta love Jackie. Her expression as a Dalek rolls past is simply one of "bloody Dalek." XD



*SNORTS* She's still the one person that can make the Doctor skid to a freaked-out halt.



Jackie says goodbye to Mickey, and Mickey says he'll miss Jackie most of all. That's a fairly telling comment, and fits into my theory about Rose and what life has been like in the altverse.



Jackie: I was pregnant, do you remember? Had a baby boy!
Doctor: Ah, brilliant! What did you call him?
Jackie: Doctor.
Doctor: ...really?


Jackie: No, you plum. He's called Tony!

BWAH!! Doctor, welcome to your life. XD



And the last we see of Jackie, she's standing in the background as the Doctor and Rose watch the TARDIS fade away. And I for one am happy that the Doctor and Jackie will have a lifetime of picking on each other. :D

[identity profile] http://users.livejournal.com/_thirty2flavors/ 2010-02-01 05:53 pm (UTC)(link)
Also, since Mickey winds up jumping universes in the end, I'm guessing his grandmother had passed away.

She did actually! He mentions it to Ten before he jumps ship.

Awww I love Jackie. Her "bitch please" smackdown of Elton is about the only moment in Love & Monsters worth remembering, for me.

And Ten/Jackie interaction is my favourite ever.

[identity profile] mrv3000.livejournal.com 2010-02-01 05:56 pm (UTC)(link)
She did actually! He mentions it to Ten before he jumps ship.

Obviously it's been too long since I've watched this! :D

Awww I love Jackie. Her "bitch please" smackdown of Elton is about the only moment in Love & Monsters worth remembering, for me.

Yeah, that's pretty much what I came away with as well.

And Ten/Jackie interaction is my favourite ever.

There really needs to be more Ten & Jackie fic. XD

[identity profile] http://users.livejournal.com/_thirty2flavors/ 2010-02-01 06:01 pm (UTC)(link)
I rewatched the "everyone leaves the TARDIS" bit pretty recently when I wrote that fic with Rose and Cloen talking on the TARDIS. Mickey says something about how she spent the last few years of her life living in a mansion!

There should be! Jackie was the first character I really wrote for in this fandom, lol.

I must admit that Jackie/altPete is one of those things that makes me scratch my head every so often when I think too long about it. It seems like everyone is pretty a-okay with replacing people like that -- even the Doctor encourages it, to say nothing of setting Rose up with Cloen (to be fair, though, I would argue that Rose/Cloen is significantly less WTF than Jackie/altPete). I mean, what's with Mickey and his grandmother? Does he just pretend to be Ricky? Does she never know her actual grandson actually died? Wtffff.

[identity profile] ginamak.livejournal.com 2010-02-01 06:04 pm (UTC)(link)
Even though everyone scoffed at Jackie when she told Alt!Pete there'd been no one else, when you think about it, it's kind of true. She clearly had flings and maybe offically dated a man or two, but (with the possible exception of Howard), you get the feeling she never really had another real relationship. Pete was always *it* for her.

Whether or not that was healthy is another matter, but I always saw a real parallel between Doctor/Rose and Pete/Jackie. They were just too big for there to be room for anyone else in their hearts. :)

[identity profile] mrv3000.livejournal.com 2010-02-01 06:07 pm (UTC)(link)
I rewatched the "everyone leaves the TARDIS" bit pretty recently when I wrote that fic with Rose and Cloen talking on the TARDIS. Mickey says something about how she spent the last few years of her life living in a mansion!

It's funny that Mickey moved in with them. :D Also, that kind of lends to the idea that Rose was probably around the mansion as well, rather than got her own flat. In my mind, I doubt she cared much where she was.

There should be! Jackie was the first character I really wrote for in this fandom, lol.

Awwwwwwww.

I must admit that Jackie/altPete is one of those things that makes me scratch my head every so often when I think too long about it. It seems like everyone is pretty a-okay with replacing people like that -- even the Doctor encourages it, to say nothing of setting Rose up with Cloen (to be fair, though, I would argue that Rose/Cloen is significantly less WTF than Jackie/altPete). I mean, what's with Mickey and his grandmother? Does he just pretend to be Ricky? Does she never know her actual grandson actually died? Wtffff.

Yeah, there's this big gaping hole where there needs to be INFORMATION. :D On Mickey, I kind of suspect that he never told her. And I can only imagine that Pete and Jackie had their own issues to work out.

[identity profile] mrv3000.livejournal.com 2010-02-01 06:10 pm (UTC)(link)
Even though everyone scoffed at Jackie when she told Alt!Pete there'd been no one else, when you think about it, it's kind of true. She clearly had flings and maybe offically dated a man or two, but (with the possible exception of Howard), you get the feeling she never really had another real relationship. Pete was always *it* for her.

I really do think that's the way she meant it. She'd obviously not had a relationship that stuck.

Whether or not that was healthy is another matter, but I always saw a real parallel between Doctor/Rose and Pete/Jackie. They were just too big for there to be room for anyone else in their hearts. :)

I suspect that RTD was trying to draw a bit of a parallel as well. Rose and Jackie are very similar in this way.

[identity profile] http://users.livejournal.com/_thirty2flavors/ 2010-02-01 06:13 pm (UTC)(link)
I guess I never thought much about whether the mansion was meant to be the same one or a different one. lol, party at the Tyler mansion. I sort of waver back and forth on whether Rose got her own flat or not. I could see it either way. I think in fic I usually write that she did, but I could buy that she didn't.

On Mickey, I kind of suspect that he never told her. And I can only imagine that Pete and Jackie had their own issues to work out.

That's just... so screwed re: Mickey, though, lol. At least both Pete and Jackie knew what they were getting themselves into. OH RTD. I wrote a fic once in my verse with altDonna where she finds out that she's... well, altDonna, and the whole parallel universe debacle, and her reaction is basically "WTF IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE?" which was kind of fun to write because... really, now. Someone had to say it, lol.

[identity profile] principia-coh.livejournal.com 2010-02-01 06:13 pm (UTC)(link)
My system is currently having cut and paste fail, so I'll have to go without citing your captions.

Aside from Jackie being lonely and being terrified of being completely alone with Rose gone, the argument in AoG plays to both that same concern and the stagnation in her life. She's adjusted to the idea that Rose won't be there all the time, but she doesn't want her daughter to turn into someone she doesn't even know anymore. And you point out that 'hey, everyone changes,' but think of it from Jackie's perspective: she basically hit her personal pause button when Pete died and since then she's just been treading water. She doesn't think of everyone as changing, because she hasn't, by and large - except where the current circumstances of her daughter's life has forced her to.

Getting together with alt!Pete gave them both something they'd been missing for years, and that's really the point at which her life started again. Unlike some folks, though, I liked that we saw Jackie coming forth to kick ass for great justice, because why should her entire life suddenly be defined as being Mrs. Vitex and Tony's Mother?

[identity profile] shinyopals.livejournal.com 2010-02-01 06:14 pm (UTC)(link)
*LUFFS JACKIE* She is AWESOME. :D

Pretend I said something more intelligent.

[identity profile] mrv3000.livejournal.com 2010-02-01 06:14 pm (UTC)(link)
BWAH!! Alt!Donna would totally say that. :D

[identity profile] mrv3000.livejournal.com 2010-02-01 06:17 pm (UTC)(link)
but think of it from Jackie's perspective: she basically hit her personal pause button when Pete died and since then she's just been treading water. She doesn't think of everyone as changing, because she hasn't, by and large - except where the current circumstances of her daughter's life has forced her to.

Exactly. It's not just a physical being left behind, it's an emotional one as well.

Unlike some folks, though, I liked that we saw Jackie coming forth to kick ass for great justice, because why should her entire life suddenly be defined as being Mrs. Vitex and Tony's Mother?

I don't quite remember what my reaction was, but I don't think I was overly troubled by her being there. It made sense.

[identity profile] mrv3000.livejournal.com 2010-02-01 06:17 pm (UTC)(link)
*PRETENDS* :D

*uses gif*

[identity profile] goldy-dollar.livejournal.com 2010-02-01 06:20 pm (UTC)(link)


Aww, Jackie! I think it's kind of cool that, despite the Doctor, Rose, and even the audience tending to underestimate her, she would respond with these moments of being totally fierce and awesome.

I really don't know why RTD then failed so spectacularly at creating well rounded mothers for Martha and Donna. Humph.

[identity profile] teruel-a-witch.livejournal.com 2010-02-01 06:21 pm (UTC)(link)
Yay, Jackie, best DW Mum, definitely :D

When a Tyler woman loves, she loves fiercely and forever, it is believed that a girl very often repeats her mother's fate and it some way I believe RTD did just that.

Jackie starts talking about Rose not being human (which completely ignores the fact that everyone changes throughout their lives)
That was always a big WTF moment for me, because all human beings change and evolve that is the essence of humanity, also, I don't see anything bad in Rose not being tied to Earth, why should she? Home is where the heart is and we all know it's in the TARDIS anyway. I don't think ordinary life was what Rose wanted, if she had, she would have stayed with Mickey in the first place.

Re: *uses gif*

[identity profile] mrv3000.livejournal.com 2010-02-01 06:22 pm (UTC)(link)
I love that gif. XD

Aww, Jackie! I think it's kind of cool that, despite the Doctor, Rose, and even the audience tending to underestimate her, she would respond with these moments of being totally fierce and awesome.

*NODS*

I really don't know why RTD then failed so spectacularly at creating well rounded mothers for Martha and Donna. Humph.

I kind of wonder if it was because Jackie was a bit more key in the Doctor's life. He really made her become sort of adopted family for the Doctor, and so she got fleshed out.

Re: *uses gif*

[identity profile] goldy-dollar.livejournal.com 2010-02-01 06:24 pm (UTC)(link)
I kind of wonder if it was because Jackie was a bit more key in the Doctor's life. He really made her become sort of adopted family for the Doctor, and so she got fleshed out.

Well... yes. But Wilf was awesome and well-rounded where as Francine and Sylvia were just like... GET BACK, DEMONS FROM HELL. He could have done something to make them seem *slightly* more sympathetic. Martha's mum sold her out to the Master!

[identity profile] mrv3000.livejournal.com 2010-02-01 06:25 pm (UTC)(link)
When a Tyler woman loves, she loves fiercely and forever, it is believed that a girl very often repeats her mother's fate and it some way I believe RTD did just that.

He definitely made them quite similar in that aspect, didn't he?

That was always a big WTF moment for me, because all human beings change and evolve that is the essence of humanity, also, I don't see anything bad in Rose not being tied to Earth, why should she? Home is where the heart is and we all know it's in the TARDIS anyway. I don't think ordinary life was what Rose wanted, if she had, she would have stayed with Mickey in the first place.

I think it was partly rooted in Jackie's own insecurities.

Re: *uses gif*

[identity profile] mrv3000.livejournal.com 2010-02-01 06:26 pm (UTC)(link)
Good point. I...don't know.

[identity profile] http://users.livejournal.com/_thirty2flavors/ 2010-02-01 06:26 pm (UTC)(link)
LOL Poor altDonna. It would be such an awkward "BY THE WAY..."

Re: *uses gif*

[identity profile] goldy-dollar.livejournal.com 2010-02-01 06:28 pm (UTC)(link)
Jackie Tyler would bite off the Master's nose, I think. XD

Re: *uses gif*

[identity profile] mrv3000.livejournal.com 2010-02-01 06:28 pm (UTC)(link)
*snorts*

[identity profile] maypanic.livejournal.com 2010-02-01 06:42 pm (UTC)(link)
Jackie is awesome. I think a lot of the credit has to go to the actress, because just on paper she shouldn't be quite as lovable as she is.

When Pete asks her "You didn't marry anyone else or..." I don't think he's asking if she's dated/slept with anyone in the last 20 years. And I don't think that's how she answers. Her heart never belonged to anyone else, and that's where the immediate answer came from.

The evolution of the relationship between Mickey and Jackie is beautiful. The fact that they go so quickly from her blaming him for Rose's disappearance, to the two of them teaming together against the Slitheen, says a lot about their relationship before - I think they fell back into default mode of almost-family. They depend on each other and grow closer all through the series, and how much that bonded has strengthened is obvious in JE in their every interaction. But I still feel the need to point out that when Mickey says he'll miss Jackie most of all, he's probably thinking that Rose is going to be staying with the Doctor in this universe, and that he'll still see them from time to time but won't ever see Jackie again. Of course he probably is closer to Jackie than Rose at this point, but I don't think he'd have put it quite that bluntly if he knew he wouldn't be seeing either of them again.

Maybe it's just me having issues with the Doctor not letting Mickey or Jack know this was their last chance to tell Rose goodbye, either.

[identity profile] mrv3000.livejournal.com 2010-02-01 06:45 pm (UTC)(link)
Jackie is awesome. I think a lot of the credit has to go to the actress, because just on paper she shouldn't be quite as lovable as she is.

Her interpretation of Jackie is great. :)

When Pete asks her "You didn't marry anyone else or..." I don't think he's asking if she's dated/slept with anyone in the last 20 years. And I don't think that's how she answers. Her heart never belonged to anyone else, and that's where the immediate answer came from.

I think that's the intent of that little scene, but the Doctor and Mickey's reactions still crack me up. :D

But I still feel the need to point out that when Mickey says he'll miss Jackie most of all, he's probably thinking that Rose is going to be staying with the Doctor in this universe, and that he'll still see them from time to time but won't ever see Jackie again. Of course he probably is closer to Jackie than Rose at this point, but I don't think he'd have put it quite that bluntly if he knew he wouldn't be seeing either of them again.

Hmmm. That could be. I didn't really think about that...

[identity profile] http://users.livejournal.com/_thirty2flavors/ 2010-02-01 07:01 pm (UTC)(link)
That's how I interpreted that bit with Mickey in JE as well, though I think we may be in the minority, lol.

[identity profile] erateini.livejournal.com 2010-02-01 07:04 pm (UTC)(link)
Happy birthday Jackie!
May you 'torture' the Doctor for ages to come! XD

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