Entry tags:
Jacqueline Andrea Suzette Tyler (née Prentice)
"February the first: Mum's birthday. Even in a parallel universe, she still loves a party."
Jackie often brings comic relief to episodes (especially with Ten), but she's not a caricature. In fact, she's quite a complex character.

The earliest we see Jackie is when she's marrying Pete. Things don't start out well when Pete flubs her name.

And things don't seem much better by the time Rose is born. Pete's constantly trying schemes to make money, and she suspects him of cheating on her. Whether or not he was, or if it was in Jackie's mind, we don't really know. But life is a bit rocky for her.

Although she really does love him, in spite of it all.

After Pete's death, Jackie's left on her own to raise Rose. As she says later in Doomsday, she never did anything with her life - she seemed to be trapped.

Just before the Doctor falls into her life, we get a little taste of Jackie that confirms what we already know: she's convinced she'll never find anyone and she likes to party. Bless.


When we first see Jackie, she seems more interested in money than anything else. She talks about getting Rose money by suing, and about what kind of jobs she should look for. But it's understandable when you consider that Jackie's default mode is one of survival. She's spent much of her adult life being a single parent under meager conditions.
There's also her comments to Rose about Rose putting on airs when working in the shop. I always interpret this as coming from two places. One, she's a product of her society and two, Jackie's been clinging a bit to Rose - Rose getting a better job might mean moving out and leaving Jackie behind. Jackie's "never left the flat" (her words from Doomsday), and the thought of Rose leaving is scary.


But Jackie and the Doctor's relationship was destined to be hysterical. :D

I can't even imagine what Jackie went through during the year that Rose was missing. It must have been a complete hell for her. :(

You really can't blame her for smacking the hell out of the creepy guy who took her daughter away.

Jackie's introduction to the TARDIS. It wasn't a positive experience.

Which really freaks her out, and so she rats out the Doctor. Again, you can't really blame her.

Jackie tries to pin down the Doctor. Tries to ask him if Rose would be safe with him. He avoids the question as long as possible, but finally tells her what she doesn't want to hear.

Jackie's not exactly useless. She grabs the phone and starts whipping up some Monster-B-Gone. When backed against a wall, she can surprise you.

After Rose came home safe (oh, and the Doctor saved the world), Jackie starts softening to him. She says she's even willing to get to know him and listen to him. Unfortunately the Doctor gets douchy and refuses to have tea.

That look on Jackie's face: OW. She knows she's losing Rose and there's not a lot she can do about it. She tries asking and even bargaining with Rose, but it's not working. It's a tough situation, and you can see both sides of it.

I think Rose thought she was being honest with Jackie, but Jackie's not buying it. Shoot, even the Doctor's not buying it. (Not that he did any correcting.)


Rose is back and Jackie's trying to convince her that this is a good thing. All Jackie's wanted was for Rose to be safe. The Doctor made her safe and so wins all around in Jackie's mind.

But Rose is miserable and Jackie starts to hear Rose. There's this whole new world Rose is involved in - one where she could talk to Pete and one where things are worth dying for. That had to be HARD for Jackie to take in.

But it got in. Next thing you know, Jackie turns up with super-sized help in order to get Rose back to the Doctor. This is such a huge turnaround for her. I'm sure Jackie would never want Rose to go into danger, but here you see her actually helping Rose get to her new life.

Little did she know she'd get a spazzy skinny dude in return. XD

Jackie wonders what the Doctor has two of. OH, JACKIE. XD

To me this is still one of the funniest moments in all of New Who. Jackie's trying to be helpful, but only in a way that drives the Doctor completely up the wall. XD

Awww, Jackie. She's already beginning to mother him, sleeping next to him while he's ill.

And always there to comfort. Jackie's a nurturer. (It's where Rose gets it from.)

Awwwww! Group hug!

At this point Jackie's past the stage of begging Rose to stay home. She still doesn't like it, calling them mad, but she's resigned.

No wonder the Doctor's terrified of Jackie! One look is enough to say, "if you mess up, I'll grab and cut 'em off." XD

Saying goodbye, trying to get Rose to call. Jackie now has to deal with life without Rose, for the most part.

Rose's lifestyle no longer surprises her. And she's not immediately blaming the Doctor for the breakdown happening on her shoulder. I like to think that after this little moment, they spent a few days with Jackie until the Doctor started ordering things out of catalogs and Jackie tried shoving food down him every chance she got. :D

In Love & Monsters we got a peek into Jackie's world without the Doctor and Rose in it. The big thing is that she's lonely. She's got an empty nest and no one special in her life.

Jackie likes men, which is something the Doctor loved poking fun of, but really ties into her loneliness. She's been trying to fill a hole in her life ever since Pete died. Rose leaving just amplified the loneliness.

But Jackie's happiness is meaningless compared to protecting her daughter. And protecting the Doctor too, as we find out. She'll still kick him in the shin, but will cut anyone who tries to do the same.


BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! I love how Jackie knows this freaks out the Doctor. It's like shooting a water gun at a cat. XD

Jackie's worries have evolved. She's no longer simply worried about Rose's safety, but what Rose will become in this life. I think this is a very long conversation that needed to happen. They're both not being very fair in this very short amount of time it was discussed. Jackie starts talking about Rose not being human (which completely ignores the fact that everyone changes throughout their lives), and Rose simply blows off Jackie. Jackie wants Rose to stay exactly the same, sort of like how Jackie's stayed in one place since Pete died. Rose doesn't want to hear any of it.


Yup, Jackie would totally still kick the Doctor in the shins. XD



And the Doctor gets a little payback for the snog. *dies* I love their relationship.



The funny thing is that Jackie almost slips into a companion relationship with the Doctor here. They give each other knowing looks. Often Jackie can be flaily and ridiculous, but she's not stupid by any means. I'd be tempted to say she's a lot like Donna, although they really are motivated by different things. (It's hard to remember that Jackie and Donna are supposed to be about the same age.)


But it's not too long before the picking on each other starts up again. Just wait, Doctor. Jackie will eventually get you back for this. :D


Back when it aired, I kind of hated the whole thing about slipping in alt!Pete for real!Pete, but now it doesn't bug me as much. *shrugs* It was completely indulgent of RTD, but at least we get to hear some heartfelt words in this little scene. Jackie tells Pete there's been a hole in her life since he died. Pete tells Jackie that she's not really his wife.

But they can't help running to each other anyway. RTD does this kind of love - the kind where it should be wrong but isn't. Not only do you have the Doctor and Rose, but his 2001 series "Bob & Rose" comes to mind.

Side note: the Doctor backing away from Jackie when she tells him to shut up is funny. So is Mickey's reaction. :D

And their reactions when Jackie says there's been no one else in her life - BWAH!! (Also, I don't know if I realized how short Noel was. Huh.)

In the altverse we see that Pete and Jackie are together. Really together since Jackie's expecting. It still seems like a pat ending for them, but after seeing Mickey and Martha in EoT, I get the feeling that RTD works out all the issues and problems of these relationships in his head, but only the end result gets on screen. But even if it is pat, after what Jackie's been through in her life, you can't begrudge her her happy ending.

And then the tables are turned a bit. Suddenly Jackie has this new and happy life, and Rose is the one left behind. If anyone knows how to relate here, it's Jackie.

I never noticed before I capped this, but Jackie's gun shoots off into nowhere, doesn't it? Oh, Jackie. *pets* :D
I've seen Jackie get picked on for following Rose. She has a small child back home, after all. But Jackie's instinct to protect her children is STRONG. I could see in her mind that Tony was safe with Pete, so she could go save Rose. I don't think her own danger really ever entered into it.

She just wants the tin cans to take her to Rose. :D

It's such a tease with the altverse. We see tiny glimpses of what it's been like. For example, Mickey and Jackie have become even closer since last we've seen them. My own theory about this is that Rose went into tunnel-vision mode in the altverse. Her entire world became the dimension cannon, and Jackie and Mickey bonded over that. Also, since Mickey winds up jumping universes in the end, I'm guessing his grandmother had passed away. I'm sure Jackie would have been there for him through that.

You've just gotta love Jackie. Her expression as a Dalek rolls past is simply one of "bloody Dalek." XD

*SNORTS* She's still the one person that can make the Doctor skid to a freaked-out halt.

Jackie says goodbye to Mickey, and Mickey says he'll miss Jackie most of all. That's a fairly telling comment, and fits into my theory about Rose and what life has been like in the altverse.

Jackie: I was pregnant, do you remember? Had a baby boy!
Doctor: Ah, brilliant! What did you call him?
Jackie: Doctor.
Doctor: ...really?

Jackie: No, you plum. He's called Tony!
BWAH!! Doctor, welcome to your life. XD

And the last we see of Jackie, she's standing in the background as the Doctor and Rose watch the TARDIS fade away. And I for one am happy that the Doctor and Jackie will have a lifetime of picking on each other. :D
Jackie often brings comic relief to episodes (especially with Ten), but she's not a caricature. In fact, she's quite a complex character.
The earliest we see Jackie is when she's marrying Pete. Things don't start out well when Pete flubs her name.
And things don't seem much better by the time Rose is born. Pete's constantly trying schemes to make money, and she suspects him of cheating on her. Whether or not he was, or if it was in Jackie's mind, we don't really know. But life is a bit rocky for her.
Although she really does love him, in spite of it all.
After Pete's death, Jackie's left on her own to raise Rose. As she says later in Doomsday, she never did anything with her life - she seemed to be trapped.
Just before the Doctor falls into her life, we get a little taste of Jackie that confirms what we already know: she's convinced she'll never find anyone and she likes to party. Bless.
When we first see Jackie, she seems more interested in money than anything else. She talks about getting Rose money by suing, and about what kind of jobs she should look for. But it's understandable when you consider that Jackie's default mode is one of survival. She's spent much of her adult life being a single parent under meager conditions.
There's also her comments to Rose about Rose putting on airs when working in the shop. I always interpret this as coming from two places. One, she's a product of her society and two, Jackie's been clinging a bit to Rose - Rose getting a better job might mean moving out and leaving Jackie behind. Jackie's "never left the flat" (her words from Doomsday), and the thought of Rose leaving is scary.
But Jackie and the Doctor's relationship was destined to be hysterical. :D
I can't even imagine what Jackie went through during the year that Rose was missing. It must have been a complete hell for her. :(
You really can't blame her for smacking the hell out of the creepy guy who took her daughter away.
Jackie's introduction to the TARDIS. It wasn't a positive experience.
Which really freaks her out, and so she rats out the Doctor. Again, you can't really blame her.
Jackie tries to pin down the Doctor. Tries to ask him if Rose would be safe with him. He avoids the question as long as possible, but finally tells her what she doesn't want to hear.
Jackie's not exactly useless. She grabs the phone and starts whipping up some Monster-B-Gone. When backed against a wall, she can surprise you.
After Rose came home safe (oh, and the Doctor saved the world), Jackie starts softening to him. She says she's even willing to get to know him and listen to him. Unfortunately the Doctor gets douchy and refuses to have tea.
That look on Jackie's face: OW. She knows she's losing Rose and there's not a lot she can do about it. She tries asking and even bargaining with Rose, but it's not working. It's a tough situation, and you can see both sides of it.
I think Rose thought she was being honest with Jackie, but Jackie's not buying it. Shoot, even the Doctor's not buying it. (Not that he did any correcting.)
Rose is back and Jackie's trying to convince her that this is a good thing. All Jackie's wanted was for Rose to be safe. The Doctor made her safe and so wins all around in Jackie's mind.
But Rose is miserable and Jackie starts to hear Rose. There's this whole new world Rose is involved in - one where she could talk to Pete and one where things are worth dying for. That had to be HARD for Jackie to take in.
But it got in. Next thing you know, Jackie turns up with super-sized help in order to get Rose back to the Doctor. This is such a huge turnaround for her. I'm sure Jackie would never want Rose to go into danger, but here you see her actually helping Rose get to her new life.
Little did she know she'd get a spazzy skinny dude in return. XD
Jackie wonders what the Doctor has two of. OH, JACKIE. XD
To me this is still one of the funniest moments in all of New Who. Jackie's trying to be helpful, but only in a way that drives the Doctor completely up the wall. XD
Awww, Jackie. She's already beginning to mother him, sleeping next to him while he's ill.
And always there to comfort. Jackie's a nurturer. (It's where Rose gets it from.)
Awwwww! Group hug!
At this point Jackie's past the stage of begging Rose to stay home. She still doesn't like it, calling them mad, but she's resigned.
No wonder the Doctor's terrified of Jackie! One look is enough to say, "if you mess up, I'll grab and cut 'em off." XD
Saying goodbye, trying to get Rose to call. Jackie now has to deal with life without Rose, for the most part.
Rose's lifestyle no longer surprises her. And she's not immediately blaming the Doctor for the breakdown happening on her shoulder. I like to think that after this little moment, they spent a few days with Jackie until the Doctor started ordering things out of catalogs and Jackie tried shoving food down him every chance she got. :D
In Love & Monsters we got a peek into Jackie's world without the Doctor and Rose in it. The big thing is that she's lonely. She's got an empty nest and no one special in her life.
Jackie likes men, which is something the Doctor loved poking fun of, but really ties into her loneliness. She's been trying to fill a hole in her life ever since Pete died. Rose leaving just amplified the loneliness.
But Jackie's happiness is meaningless compared to protecting her daughter. And protecting the Doctor too, as we find out. She'll still kick him in the shin, but will cut anyone who tries to do the same.
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! I love how Jackie knows this freaks out the Doctor. It's like shooting a water gun at a cat. XD
Jackie's worries have evolved. She's no longer simply worried about Rose's safety, but what Rose will become in this life. I think this is a very long conversation that needed to happen. They're both not being very fair in this very short amount of time it was discussed. Jackie starts talking about Rose not being human (which completely ignores the fact that everyone changes throughout their lives), and Rose simply blows off Jackie. Jackie wants Rose to stay exactly the same, sort of like how Jackie's stayed in one place since Pete died. Rose doesn't want to hear any of it.
Yup, Jackie would totally still kick the Doctor in the shins. XD
And the Doctor gets a little payback for the snog. *dies* I love their relationship.
The funny thing is that Jackie almost slips into a companion relationship with the Doctor here. They give each other knowing looks. Often Jackie can be flaily and ridiculous, but she's not stupid by any means. I'd be tempted to say she's a lot like Donna, although they really are motivated by different things. (It's hard to remember that Jackie and Donna are supposed to be about the same age.)
But it's not too long before the picking on each other starts up again. Just wait, Doctor. Jackie will eventually get you back for this. :D
Back when it aired, I kind of hated the whole thing about slipping in alt!Pete for real!Pete, but now it doesn't bug me as much. *shrugs* It was completely indulgent of RTD, but at least we get to hear some heartfelt words in this little scene. Jackie tells Pete there's been a hole in her life since he died. Pete tells Jackie that she's not really his wife.
But they can't help running to each other anyway. RTD does this kind of love - the kind where it should be wrong but isn't. Not only do you have the Doctor and Rose, but his 2001 series "Bob & Rose" comes to mind.
Side note: the Doctor backing away from Jackie when she tells him to shut up is funny. So is Mickey's reaction. :D
And their reactions when Jackie says there's been no one else in her life - BWAH!! (Also, I don't know if I realized how short Noel was. Huh.)
In the altverse we see that Pete and Jackie are together. Really together since Jackie's expecting. It still seems like a pat ending for them, but after seeing Mickey and Martha in EoT, I get the feeling that RTD works out all the issues and problems of these relationships in his head, but only the end result gets on screen. But even if it is pat, after what Jackie's been through in her life, you can't begrudge her her happy ending.
And then the tables are turned a bit. Suddenly Jackie has this new and happy life, and Rose is the one left behind. If anyone knows how to relate here, it's Jackie.
I never noticed before I capped this, but Jackie's gun shoots off into nowhere, doesn't it? Oh, Jackie. *pets* :D
I've seen Jackie get picked on for following Rose. She has a small child back home, after all. But Jackie's instinct to protect her children is STRONG. I could see in her mind that Tony was safe with Pete, so she could go save Rose. I don't think her own danger really ever entered into it.
She just wants the tin cans to take her to Rose. :D
It's such a tease with the altverse. We see tiny glimpses of what it's been like. For example, Mickey and Jackie have become even closer since last we've seen them. My own theory about this is that Rose went into tunnel-vision mode in the altverse. Her entire world became the dimension cannon, and Jackie and Mickey bonded over that. Also, since Mickey winds up jumping universes in the end, I'm guessing his grandmother had passed away. I'm sure Jackie would have been there for him through that.
You've just gotta love Jackie. Her expression as a Dalek rolls past is simply one of "bloody Dalek." XD
*SNORTS* She's still the one person that can make the Doctor skid to a freaked-out halt.
Jackie says goodbye to Mickey, and Mickey says he'll miss Jackie most of all. That's a fairly telling comment, and fits into my theory about Rose and what life has been like in the altverse.
Jackie: I was pregnant, do you remember? Had a baby boy!
Doctor: Ah, brilliant! What did you call him?
Jackie: Doctor.
Doctor: ...really?
Jackie: No, you plum. He's called Tony!
BWAH!! Doctor, welcome to your life. XD
And the last we see of Jackie, she's standing in the background as the Doctor and Rose watch the TARDIS fade away. And I for one am happy that the Doctor and Jackie will have a lifetime of picking on each other. :D

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She did actually! He mentions it to Ten before he jumps ship.
Awww I love Jackie. Her "bitch please" smackdown of Elton is about the only moment in Love & Monsters worth remembering, for me.
And Ten/Jackie interaction is my favourite ever.
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Obviously it's been too long since I've watched this! :D
Awww I love Jackie. Her "bitch please" smackdown of Elton is about the only moment in Love & Monsters worth remembering, for me.
Yeah, that's pretty much what I came away with as well.
And Ten/Jackie interaction is my favourite ever.
There really needs to be more Ten & Jackie fic. XD
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Whether or not that was healthy is another matter, but I always saw a real parallel between Doctor/Rose and Pete/Jackie. They were just too big for there to be room for anyone else in their hearts. :)
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I really do think that's the way she meant it. She'd obviously not had a relationship that stuck.
Whether or not that was healthy is another matter, but I always saw a real parallel between Doctor/Rose and Pete/Jackie. They were just too big for there to be room for anyone else in their hearts. :)
I suspect that RTD was trying to draw a bit of a parallel as well. Rose and Jackie are very similar in this way.
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Aside from Jackie being lonely and being terrified of being completely alone with Rose gone, the argument in AoG plays to both that same concern and the stagnation in her life. She's adjusted to the idea that Rose won't be there all the time, but she doesn't want her daughter to turn into someone she doesn't even know anymore. And you point out that 'hey, everyone changes,' but think of it from Jackie's perspective: she basically hit her personal pause button when Pete died and since then she's just been treading water. She doesn't think of everyone as changing, because she hasn't, by and large - except where the current circumstances of her daughter's life has forced her to.
Getting together with alt!Pete gave them both something they'd been missing for years, and that's really the point at which her life started again. Unlike some folks, though, I liked that we saw Jackie coming forth to kick ass for great justice, because why should her entire life suddenly be defined as being Mrs. Vitex and Tony's Mother?
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Exactly. It's not just a physical being left behind, it's an emotional one as well.
Unlike some folks, though, I liked that we saw Jackie coming forth to kick ass for great justice, because why should her entire life suddenly be defined as being Mrs. Vitex and Tony's Mother?
I don't quite remember what my reaction was, but I don't think I was overly troubled by her being there. It made sense.
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Pretend I said something more intelligent.
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*uses gif*
Aww, Jackie! I think it's kind of cool that, despite the Doctor, Rose, and even the audience tending to underestimate her, she would respond with these moments of being totally fierce and awesome.
I really don't know why RTD then failed so spectacularly at creating well rounded mothers for Martha and Donna. Humph.
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Aww, Jackie! I think it's kind of cool that, despite the Doctor, Rose, and even the audience tending to underestimate her, she would respond with these moments of being totally fierce and awesome.
*NODS*
I really don't know why RTD then failed so spectacularly at creating well rounded mothers for Martha and Donna. Humph.
I kind of wonder if it was because Jackie was a bit more key in the Doctor's life. He really made her become sort of adopted family for the Doctor, and so she got fleshed out.
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When a Tyler woman loves, she loves fiercely and forever, it is believed that a girl very often repeats her mother's fate and it some way I believe RTD did just that.
Jackie starts talking about Rose not being human (which completely ignores the fact that everyone changes throughout their lives)
That was always a big WTF moment for me, because all human beings change and evolve that is the essence of humanity, also, I don't see anything bad in Rose not being tied to Earth, why should she? Home is where the heart is and we all know it's in the TARDIS anyway. I don't think ordinary life was what Rose wanted, if she had, she would have stayed with Mickey in the first place.
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He definitely made them quite similar in that aspect, didn't he?
That was always a big WTF moment for me, because all human beings change and evolve that is the essence of humanity, also, I don't see anything bad in Rose not being tied to Earth, why should she? Home is where the heart is and we all know it's in the TARDIS anyway. I don't think ordinary life was what Rose wanted, if she had, she would have stayed with Mickey in the first place.
I think it was partly rooted in Jackie's own insecurities.
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When Pete asks her "You didn't marry anyone else or..." I don't think he's asking if she's dated/slept with anyone in the last 20 years. And I don't think that's how she answers. Her heart never belonged to anyone else, and that's where the immediate answer came from.
The evolution of the relationship between Mickey and Jackie is beautiful. The fact that they go so quickly from her blaming him for Rose's disappearance, to the two of them teaming together against the Slitheen, says a lot about their relationship before - I think they fell back into default mode of almost-family. They depend on each other and grow closer all through the series, and how much that bonded has strengthened is obvious in JE in their every interaction. But I still feel the need to point out that when Mickey says he'll miss Jackie most of all, he's probably thinking that Rose is going to be staying with the Doctor in this universe, and that he'll still see them from time to time but won't ever see Jackie again. Of course he probably is closer to Jackie than Rose at this point, but I don't think he'd have put it quite that bluntly if he knew he wouldn't be seeing either of them again.
Maybe it's just me having issues with the Doctor not letting Mickey or Jack know this was their last chance to tell Rose goodbye, either.
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Her interpretation of Jackie is great. :)
When Pete asks her "You didn't marry anyone else or..." I don't think he's asking if she's dated/slept with anyone in the last 20 years. And I don't think that's how she answers. Her heart never belonged to anyone else, and that's where the immediate answer came from.
I think that's the intent of that little scene, but the Doctor and Mickey's reactions still crack me up. :D
But I still feel the need to point out that when Mickey says he'll miss Jackie most of all, he's probably thinking that Rose is going to be staying with the Doctor in this universe, and that he'll still see them from time to time but won't ever see Jackie again. Of course he probably is closer to Jackie than Rose at this point, but I don't think he'd have put it quite that bluntly if he knew he wouldn't be seeing either of them again.
Hmmm. That could be. I didn't really think about that...
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May you 'torture' the Doctor for ages to come! XD
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I once saw someone say that the reason the Doctor is pushing Jackie and alt!Pete together is because he's already planning to send Rose with them, and he wants to set up the family she always wanted for her. But I've often wondered how that relationship developed, given that Pete had all these years with a different version of Jackie, in a marriage that was failing. That can't have been easy.
I never noticed before I capped this, but Jackie's gun shoots off into nowhere, doesn't it?
I wonder if that was by design for her to aim in the wrong place, or if the Mill just went with the direction she was aiming and it happens to have been wrong?
I've seen Jackie get picked on for following Rose.
I think that's forgetting how dire things must have been in Pete's World, with the stars going out. She had to think that staying with Tony would do no good if the universe ended.
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Thanks. :)
I once saw someone say that the reason the Doctor is pushing Jackie and alt!Pete together is because he's already planning to send Rose with them, and he wants to set up the family she always wanted for her. But I've often wondered how that relationship developed, given that Pete had all these years with a different version of Jackie, in a marriage that was failing. That can't have been easy.
I've seen that idea floated as well, and I could easily believe he did that. He's always thinking 20 steps ahead of everything, but at the same time he often fails at the intricacies of relationships. So it probably wouldn't occur to him that there would be issues involved.
I wonder if that was by design for her to aim in the wrong place, or if the Mill just went with the direction she was aiming and it happens to have been wrong?
It'd be interesting to know.
I think that's forgetting how dire things must have been in Pete's World, with the stars going out. She had to think that staying with Tony would do no good if the universe ended.
Yeah, things seemed to be getting desperate over there. Presumably not so much so that it was the end of the world yet, since Tony had been shuttled off to nursery.
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And to be fair to the other mothers, I think part of the issue is time - we get a lot more time with Jackie. But the other main difference is their relationship with the Doctor doesn't have the same kind of stakes, and therefore doesn't get developed. He is purposely avoiding family involvement with Martha - he doesn't want a whole new group of people, so he is as off putting to them as Nine used to be. And with Sylvia, Donna is a grown woman, so the there isn't the same tension in the Mother/Daughter/Doctor dynamic. The Mother/Daughter relationship plays a huge role in the Rose/Doctor relationship, and it just isn't the same kind of story with Martha and Donna, therefore, their mothers don't get the same kind treatment.
But they can't help running to each other anyway. RTD does this kind of love - the kind where it should be wrong but isn't. Not only do you have the Doctor and Rose, but his 2001 series "Bob & Rose" comes to mind.
I also think this is purposely laying the groundwork for TenII/Rose. TenII was the end game since the moment Ten's hand was cut off. That when Ten died, his human counterpart would go live the life fantastic with Rose in an alternate dimension. And I think RTD was sowing a lot seeds for why this was a happy ending throughout Ten's entire tenure. Alt!Pete/Jackie is just one example of getting us to accept that these relationships work. Mickey/Granny is another. The clone Martha in the Sontaran eps starts to build your sympathies for the idea of a generated person having memories and feelings. And then Jenny comes along and wins us over completely on that front.
Let me be very clear - all of these stories, especially Jenny's, are very important in their own right. But they also work as groundwork in advance for accepting TenII. It's why when people are upset that RTD didn't give us enough time with TenII/Rose to prove to us that they would work, I feel like no, we didn't get that, but RTD has been using the last three years to give us clues in advance. He did all the work as a writer - he's just been doing it in an order you weren't expecting, and he didn't explicitly connect the dots for us. You have to make those emotional connections on your own.
And once again I go teal dear all over your journal. Ahem.
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And I think you could have something there with RTD laying the groundwork. Like you (and he) said, TenII was always the endgame for Rose, even back when he wrote TCI. He's been setting up the altverse, which has included laying some groundwork.
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It's hard to remember that Jackie and Donna are supposed to be about the same age.
Really? I figured Donna to be about late twenties, early thirties. Old enough to be a bit jaded about life and seeing all her peers beginning to raise children, but still a fairly young woman. Obviously not as young as Rose or even Martha, but still young.
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*nodnodnod* It's easy to focus on Rose, but just look at what Jackie wound up with! It's amazing, really. :)
Really? I figured Donna to be about late twenties, early thirties. Old enough to be a bit jaded about life and seeing all her peers beginning to raise children, but still a fairly young woman. Obviously not as young as Rose or even Martha, but still young.
I don't know that they ever specifically said, but CT was 39/40 when doing S4 and I just have always imagined her to be the same age.
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And I have no doubt she and the Doctor are happily bickering at each other, while loving being each other's family. :)
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The trait that defines Jackie for me is loyalty. She's loyal to her dead husband, loyal to her daughter, and loyal to the Doctor once he gets on her good side. There really was no one but Pete in her life. In her bed, maybe, but not in her heart. And that's the trait we see in Rose, too--she will not give up on the Doctor, even when they're separated by the Void.
That's why it makes total sense to me that she'd follow Rose across the universe. Yes, she had Tony, but Tony had Pete. Pete looks after Tony; Jackie's gonna look out for her girl. Doesn't matter that Rose is an adult with Torchwood training and a Big-Ass Gun, she's Jackie's daughter, and Jackie *will* take care of her.
I, too, love the Jackie-Mickey relationship. They really grew into a very sweet mother-son dynamic. I'm sure Jackie'd approve of the woman he ended up with.
And Jackie's relationship with the Doctor--no end of fun! I love that she's the only one who can tell him to "Shut it!" and make it stick, and she can totally take the piss out of him as well. They're bound to have fun times in Pete's World. But you just know they'd do anything for each other.
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TOTALLY. Even the way she smacked Nine was pitch-perfect. Camille really was an excellent choice for Jackie.
The trait that defines Jackie for me is loyalty.
Very much so. All the people you mentioned - she's downright fierce when it comes to protecting them. Like you said, it didn't matter that Rose was an adult, she's still going to protect her.
I'm sure Jackie'd approve of the woman he ended up with.
Oh, I'd loved to have seen that! It's a shame Jackie couldn't have been there for the wedding. *sniffs*
And Jackie's relationship with the Doctor--no end of fun! I love that she's the only one who can tell him to "Shut it!" and make it stick, and she can totally take the piss out of him as well. They're bound to have fun times in Pete's World. But you just know they'd do anything for each other.
Exactly! It's not too evil to wish that one of the first mornings in the altverse, one of them accidentally ran across the other with too little clothes and five minutes of "AHHHHHHHHH!!!!"-ing commenced, is it? :D
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She's set up as a figure of fun, but of course becomes so much more. She's the Doctor's conscience in S1, and we see how hard that is for him; and then by TCI she's his protector and, later, defender (that's the only scene worth watching in Love and Monsters). I adore her relationship with Ten; she really is the only person he seems to be scared of, and it's set him in fear and trembling of all mothers ;) If only Sylvia Noble knew what she owed to Jackie Tyler! (Though I love his last interchange with Sylvia. It just shows that, while he may have a tendency to view mothers as a nuisance, he really does care about them). But Jackie... Jackie became family, and we saw that too in TRB, when he tells Donna about how he spent his last Christmas.
I too think that Jackie and the duplicate Ten have a hilarious relationship, and I so wish we could see a glimpse of it :)
Thank you for this!
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Thank you! I started in episode order, but it seemed a weird thing to end on EoT, so did a little shuffling. :)
She's set up as a figure of fun, but of course becomes so much more. She's the Doctor's conscience in S1, and we see how hard that is for him;
GREAT way of putting that! I'm not sure I've thought of it quite like that before! She really is that voice of reason that gets the Doctor's head out of that "lalala whatever!" mentality. Love that!
I adore her relationship with Ten; she really is the only person he seems to be scared of, and it's set him in fear and trembling of all mothers ;)
*snickers* He really needs Jackie in his life.
If only Sylvia Noble knew what she owed to Jackie Tyler! (Though I love his last interchange with Sylvia. It just shows that, while he may have a tendency to view mothers as a nuisance, he really does care about them).
True. :)
But Jackie... Jackie became family, and we saw that too in TRB, when he tells Donna about how he spent his last Christmas.
*nods* It wasn't just Rose, it was her family as well. He lost more than Rose in Doomsday.
I too think that Jackie and the duplicate Ten have a hilarious relationship, and I so wish we could see a glimpse of it :)
Hopefully if they ever do any material on the altverse, Jackie will be there.
Thank you for this!
Glad you liked it! :)
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It was a lot of fun getting to see her whole story again in chronological order.
I would love it if we could get more interaction between the Doctor and Jackie. Those two together are hilarious.
Thanks for a great picspam! ;D
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She really is fabulous, isn't she? She's one of my favorite minor characters in all of New Who. (Although you could practically say she wasn't "minor.")
And I would even take a non-Rose altverse story with the two of them, I love them that much. Jackie drags the Doctor shopping and wackiness ensues. XD
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She really is a wonderful character in her own right, and not just as "Rose's mum." And even though she might get on your last nerve, I think anyone would be lucky to have Jackie as their mother.
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(Anonymous) 2010-02-02 04:59 am (UTC)(link)no subject
And that conversation about Jackie not making the Doctor's history still amuses me. *pets them both*
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Wonderful, wonderful picspam!
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It's such a fantastic relationship, isn't it?
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I like the parallels you mention between Jackie and Donna. They do have different goals, amplified by Jackie being a mother and a widow and Donna being single, but they share a number of characteristics, especially the ability to slap the Doctor down either verbally or physically. :)
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I had a similar experience with her. At first I was annoyed at how much she wanted to hold Rose back, but I've grown to really understand that aspect of her.
I like the parallels you mention between Jackie and Donna. They do have different goals, amplified by Jackie being a mother and a widow and Donna being single, but they share a number of characteristics, especially the ability to slap the Doctor down either verbally or physically. :)
They're two women who could not only take the Doctor down a peg, but get him to say 'thank you' for the experience. XD
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(Although I really don't know his work very well.)