mrv3000 | (no subject)

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sherlock

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Am reading a Sherlock-Avengers crossover fic (that's pretty good, btw), and I've learned something. Steve is supposed to be the leader of the Avengers??? Huh. I didn't get that in any small way from the movie. For one thing no one seemed to "lead" and for another if I had to pick someone, I'd say Tony. (Which, of course, means that he'd immediately hand the reigns over to Pepper.)

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In the movie they barely interacted. They took a couple of digs at each other, but that seemed standard with Tony and everyone.

I don't know. Just in the movies Captain America/Steve is just so bland, that I have a hard time buying him as a leader of anything.

And here's the fic! :D (YAY for Til We have Cases!!)

In Which Neither Coulson nor Sherlock are Dead (and John sort of joins the Avengers) (http://archiveofourown.org/works/472183/chapters/817070)

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I was reluctant as well, but saw someone rec-ing it. So far it's a fun read!

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I did see Captain America. I didn't really care for it much though - it just seemed a bit dull.

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That might be something bleeding over from the comics, but definitely by the end of the movie Steve really had the whole commanding presence thing going on :) The Avengers cartoon portrays Tony as the de facto 'leader' which always felt pretty weird. He's Mr. Doesn't Play Well With Others, whereas Steve actually has leadership experience. The only one you can really say that about is Thor.

It does make sense when you lay out people's stats and so on (Tony would never have any interest in being a leader anyway), it's just... I didn't get that from the movie at all, so it was a bit surprising. :D

There are two places in the movie where this is from/seen. Right before Banner arrives on the motorcycle the Captain is about to give orders and everyone there is listening and then there's after Banner arrives and takes down the first whale-ship-thing:

Stark: Call it, Captain.
Rogers: All right, listen up! Until we can close that portal up there, what we need is containment. Barton, I want you on that roof, eyes on everything. Call out patterns and strays. Stark, you've got the perimeter. Anything gets more than three blocks out, you turn it back or you turn it to ash. Thor, you've gotta try and bottleneck that portal, slow them down. You've got the lightning - light the bastards up! You (Natasha) and me, we stay here on the ground, keep the fighting here. And Hulk, smash.

Oh, and the Captain makes the call to close the portal.

Edited 2012-10-03 13:47 (UTC)

HUH. This totally blew past me when I was watching it.

I was about to quote the same lines from the latter part of the movie.

Of course, you could read into this the fact that Stark is asking the Captain to make the decisions because he has the most military experience and they're definitely supposed to be in the middle of a pretty large skirmish. But I definitely got the feel that, by the end of the movie at least, they were working much more as a team and were quite happy to look to Captain America for leadership.

Makes sense. It probably helps if you're familiar with the story as well. As someone whose intro to The Avengers was the movie, I missed that aspect. Of course, I wasn't really looking for it either. :D

Yeah, I was going to point out exactly this. Tony looks to Steve for leadership there, probably because Steve has more experience commanding groups of soldiers in a combat situation. When it comes to the organizational side of things, Tony will probably take the lead, but he respects Steve's skills at captaining.

Makes sense. It's not as if the others really know how to lead a team in combat or anything.

And I would agree with you. It's split depending on who is doing what and the situation.

I see everyone else already covered the reasons Steve is considered the leader. I did get that vibe from the movies but I was getting into fandom at the same time as I was catching up on the movies, so that had an impact on me, I'm sure.

Edited 2012-10-03 20:50 (UTC)

*nods* Or I'm a bit blind, which is quite possible. I wasn't necessarily paying attention to the details. It was mostly "lol Hulk punched Thor" type stuff. :D

Hulk punching Thor is pretty funny, to be fair. Like Joss Whedon said, it's funny to watch Norse people get knocked out of frame.

It's funny, while I can see that maybe MCU!Tony would hand over the reins, I don't think that 616!Tony would necessarily. (This I guess depends on which book you're reading.) A lot of what we see in MCU is the façade and not so much the man. And they cut some things that I think would help to indicate Steve's role in the Avengers - but that's also a big part of who Steve is: so not flashy, understated, but command-oriented and a good leader when necessary.

Basically what I'm not saying is that I'll have to read the fic, too. :P

:D It does seem like it would benefit from external sources. Not sure that I care enough about it personally though.

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