mrv3000 | (no subject)

Even though I saw it posted in a community, I keep forgetting that Lost starts tonight. Not as excited as I was when S2 started since everything back then was OMGHATCH! But hopefully it'll be good.
Deleted DW meta from earlier today was as the result of one of the few places I didn't unsub from when I had my meltdown. I decided to go off on the Doctor=Peter Pan analogy which drives me BATS. There's the "lives forever" thing and that's where the similarities stop, IMO. Peter Pan never grows up. The Doctor is very much an adult and then some, despite having a lot of kid-like fun. Peter Pan's world is full of play fighting. The Doctor's world, while fantastical, is NOT Neverland, and is filled with death and destruction. And don't get me started on the whole Wendy aspect of it. An analogy *peeve,* I tell you. Maybe this Peter Pan thing is more applicable to older versions, but I did not get that at ALL from watching Nine and Ten. But ANYWAY...

ETA: Spoilers for DW S2 in comments.
Project Runway tonight, right? Woo!

But by Army of Ghosts, the Doctor actually has a happy smile when Rose says she's staying with him "forever." No more flailing. Of course, the shipper in me says that this was love having grown to a point that it was finally stronger than that old fear. *PETS*

Yes, to me, this is the final answer on whether the Doctor was okay with it. He ASKED her. He wanted to hear her say it. Would she actually have stayed forever? According to RTD, yes. In real life( so to speak), maybe not. But the insinuation to me is that people come and go in his life, no one ever wants to stay beyond a few years or something happens to keep them from staying and he's just become accustomed to that. No one stays. Nothing lasts forever. Rose does want to stay and although he's initially scared, he comes to believe her and want it too. Which is why it's so sad in the end. I know a lot of fans didn't like the relationship between Ten and Rose because they felt it was too cliquish and smug. Me, I can't begrudge them their joy in each other's company, knowing how it's going to end.

Yes, to me, this is the final answer on whether the Doctor was okay with it. He ASKED her. He wanted to hear her say it.

Yup! Exactly. You're right - not only just okay with it, but really *wanted* her to say that.

Would she actually have stayed forever? According to RTD, yes. In real life( so to speak), maybe not.

Well, it was a dangerous life, so it could have been a relatively short life, sadly. And you just never know about relationships - sure they could have split up 10 years down the road. (Of course, not in *my* sunshine and puppy dog world... ;) )

But the insinuation to me is that people come and go in his life, no one ever wants to stay beyond a few years or something happens to keep them from staying and he's just become accustomed to that. No one stays. Nothing lasts forever. Rose does want to stay and although he's initially scared, he comes to believe her and want it too.

Yeah, totally. He's got this guard up because everything in the past *has* been like that. And so Rose has always been the one that has needed to push those barriers when it's come to their relationship.

Which is why it's so sad in the end. I know a lot of fans didn't like the relationship between Ten and Rose because they felt it was too cliquish and smug. Me, I can't begrudge them their joy in each other's company, knowing how it's going to end.

Hell, I was fine with it long before knowing there would be an end. They were supremely happy and vastly content being together. I just can't be "I'm sorry, but you're really *too* happy and that's not allowed" about it.

As far as the Ten/Rose suddenly being a clique thing, that's another eyebrow raise for me. Oh sure, he mocked Mickey unmercifully. But Nine did that from *day one.* The Doctor probably wouldn't be the Doctor if he wasn't mocking Mickey. (Poor Mickey. He really was too easy of a target. And of course he made the fatal mistake of dating Rose once upon a time. ;))

And if we're going to split Doctors, Nine kept trying to actually *sever* Rose from her home. Talk about clique! Ten actually seemed to like Mickey and Jackie in his own way. Part of this I think comes from the new personality, but part I really do think is from going through Bad Wolf and Rose coming back for him even when she could have been safe at home. He doesn't have to keep trying to cut her ties since he now knows he's not going to lose her that way. Shoot, he actually hugs them and sits down to dinner with them, and this after a year of a "too domestic" mantra.

And if we're going to split Doctors, Nine kept trying to actually *sever* Rose from her home. Talk about clique! Ten actually seemed to like Mickey and Jackie in his own way.

HA, can you imagine what Nine would have done if Jackie had kissed him like she did Ten? There wouldn't even have been one of those little smoke trails. No, I agree that Ten and Rose weren't offensive. The only time that I cringed a little was at the beginning of Rise of the Cybermen. But that had more than a little to do with Mickey, because Jack didn't have any trouble fitting in and not being the odd guy out. Mickey grew a lot over the series, but he was kinda pathetic at first, calling the Doctor a thing and all.

They were supremely happy and vastly content being together. I just can't be "I'm sorry, but you're really *too* happy and that's not allowed" about it.

Exactly! That was one of the things in the confidentials that made me go 'wha-at?' Both RTD and David Tennant made reference to the fact that they were too happy and it couldn't last. I thought that was a really odd way to look at it.

HA, can you imagine what Nine would have done if Jackie had kissed him like she did Ten? There wouldn't even have been one of those little smoke trails.

BWAH!!!

No, I agree that Ten and Rose weren't offensive. The only time that I cringed a little was at the beginning of Rise of the Cybermen.

I didn't laugh. At all. Nope...

Okay, there was actually quite a bit of laughing mixed with a small amount of "I really shouldn't be laughing because of poor Mickey." I'm EVIL, I tell you! But by that point I was more than a bit sick of the never-ending "maybe Rose will still love me" which I thought had gone the way of the dodo in "The Parting of the Ways." Although I really liked Mickey when he wasn't moody over Rose.

But that had more than a little to do with Mickey, because Jack didn't have any trouble fitting in and not being the odd guy out. Mickey grew a lot over the series, but he was kinda pathetic at first, calling the Doctor a thing and all.

Yeah, "Most Grown" prize I think has to go to Mickey. Talk about "unrecognizable" compared to "Rose" and "Doomsday." And good for him!

Exactly! That was one of the things in the confidentials that made me go 'wha-at?' Both RTD and David Tennant made reference to the fact that they were too happy and it couldn't last. I thought that was a really odd way to look at it.

I can understand it from an external writing/drama standpoint. But within the internal context of the actual world these two characters live in, no. Doesn't really make sense that happiness cannot last. Neither can you say that happiness will last forever. Relationships are too organic to fit some kind of dramatic formula.